https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site Living and Knowing Sat, 26 Feb 2022 15:02:42 +0000 https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site en https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/Home-1 Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:49:13 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/Home-1 https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/RachelSW_eng Sat, 26 Feb 2022 12:52:10 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/RachelSW_eng 한국어 Interview with Rachel Stein Wexler (public artist, urban planner, consultant, and ZK/U Fellow) personal website︎︎︎ Face-to-face interview on 28. Dec. 2021Editing on 24. Feb. 2022 Interviewed by Jeeyoung Lee Translated by Seolhee Park <img width="4032" height="3024" width_o="4032" height_o="3024" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/48984543871c20ebb76d00a588cfd2283d1b1357be02202d7dc04b904176fc3f/image-1_-c_-R-Stein-Wexler.JPG" data-mid="134782010" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/48984543871c20ebb76d00a588cfd2283d1b1357be02202d7dc04b904176fc3f/image-1_-c_-R-Stein-Wexler.JPG" />Installation with neighborhood resident A neighborhood resident reads from the educational installation installed exactly on the site of a former Jewish senior home in Berlin, Germany. ©R Stein Wexler Jeeyong Hi, Nice to meet you. Would you please tell me about yourself? Stein My name is Rachel Stein Wexler, and I go by Stein. I am originally from the United States and I'm a dual citizen with the United States and Germany. I got my German citizenship when I was around 20 through Holocaust reparations. My grandmother had to flee Germany when she was 10 due to the Holocaust and there's a German program that grants citizenship to descendants of Holocaust victims and those whose citizenship was revoked during World War II.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I grew up in California in the states and did my bachelor's in literature. A few years later, I did my masters is in city and regional planning in North Carolina, which is on the other side of the country. It was a very different place. In my degree, I focused on equitable economic development and creative placemaking. I was hired out of my master's program to develop a public art program in a city in North Carolina called Durham. I worked there for three years during which I developed and directed public art and creative placemaking projects and programs. During that time, I started thinking about sort of being on the other side. What it would be like to be a practitioner? So, I decided to give it a try and I applied for a fellowship to come to Germany for a year. Due to the pandemic, it’s turned into a year and a half. As a research fellow, I am conducting research and its outcome is being presented through interventions in public space. Jeeyoung Do you find any connections between your past practices and now? Stein Yes. I see them along a continuum. I viewed my work as a public art administrator also as an art practice. I think anything can be an art practice, it just depends how you approach it. That experience helped me flip to the other side, creating public art, because I understand the administrative process, the barriers, the pitfalls, relationship-building, and managing different stakeholders. I think it's been immensely helpful to have had that experience as an administrator. Now as a practitioner, I feel like I have an insider’s perspective, too. Jeeyong You're going to have an exhibition in January, right? Stein Yes. I came to Berlin knowing that I wanted to do an intervention in public space about a pressing social issue. So when I first got here, I did a lot of research trying to figure out what’s going on in civil society at a micro-level. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Through various conversations with people at the ZK/U, I became aware of a very small movement within the neighborhood surrounding Haus der Statistik of a couple residents very passionately trying to unearth the history of the site before Haus der Statistik was built. I met with them and they were really excited to for someone to do something with the research they had conducted give the project to someone and so that felt like an opportunity for me to fulfill a need. I didn't want to come to a community and say this is what you need. That's not a sustainable way of doing projects. It was really a matter of finding a need that spoke to me and that spoke to my abilities and then connecting and collaborating with the people who it would serve. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; So, the research that they were conducting was about a Jewish senior home which used to stand on the site of Haus der Statistik before the War World War II. The Jewish senior home was established in 1931, eight years before the war. And right before the war, it was re-appropriated by the Nazi puppet organization for the Jewish Community. So they took ownership of the building and in between 1942 and 43 they used it as a pre-concentration camp, a building where they gathered elderly Jews before shipping them to concentration- and work-camps. The original residence of the senior home were part of the first transport. There are about 160 individuals in that first transport and then various waves of elderly Jews were kept in this building before they were also shipped. In totaled about two thousand people were held here in horrible conditions and then shipped to their deaths. This neighborhood group had conducted quite a bit of research about this history and they wanted something to be done with it. <img width="5315" height="3543" width_o="5315" height_o="3543" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/501c4cfc1cbbf7328adf53c4c522ec465253d629f56fabc0a2fbac9997ae9679/image-2__rico_prauss.jpg" data-mid="134782011" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/501c4cfc1cbbf7328adf53c4c522ec465253d629f56fabc0a2fbac9997ae9679/image-2__rico_prauss.jpg" /> Haus der Statistik WERKstattHaus der Statistik is a massive largely vacant complex in &nbsp;the heart of Berlin, Germany currently undergoing a redevelopment planning process. ©Rico Prauss The dominant narrative about Haus der Statistik is the visible narrative consisting of the DDR history and thereafter. It’s hard to tell the story that you can't see and that there aren't visible traces of. And so it goes untold. The challenge that I'm facing is how to tell that story and how to make it relevant in the present and in the future. That's what I'm working on.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The exhibition will have two components. There will be a visual installation in public space on a big poster that explains the history of the site and there will be an audio installation as well which will be embedded into the poster. I am inviting volunteers in the neighborhood to read the names of the original residence of the senior home, that will be recorded, and then played on loop at the installation.&nbsp; Jeeyong Oh, you got the records? Stein Yeah. The Nazis kept very close records. Volunteers in the neighborhood will read the entries in an archival spreadsheet. Then, their voices will be recorded and those recordings will be played into public space on loop until construction begins on the building. So, for months or so, it'll be played into public space. It'll be right outside of the Haus der Materialisierung and on Berolinastraße which is very visible to pedestrians.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This project will be launched in January and remain through the year as a placeholder until construction begins. My goal with this small project this winter is &nbsp;to lay the groundwork for something more durable, maybe a permanent installation &nbsp;or ritual in the finished building. This project will raise awareness around the history and get local people involved and attached to the issue. It’s also for encouraging decision makers at Haus der Statistik to consider writing that history into the future of the building. Jeeyong Have you found the nursing home, the building? Stein The building doesn't exist anymore. Let me show you the picture. This might be a little bit hard to understand if you're not really intimately involved with Haus der Statstik. You see, the senior home was from 18-21 on this street. This is a map from 1940 overlayed with a map from 1993, showing the urban structures that exist today. During the war, much of this area was bombed, basically flattened. The synagogue was one of these two back buildings, and it was not destroyed at all. It was completely preserved. This is Haus der Statistik here in this shaded area. The streets are completely different now, you know. The whole area was master planned after the war. And my work is right here. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; After the war these photos were taken in 1955, which is 10 years after the war. And this is the synagogue, still standing. And this is the interior of the synagogue. These are murals of the zodiac signs in the interior, and this is another mural on the interior. <img width="1542" height="971" width_o="1542" height_o="971" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/82b4a81c301d5a4379cea4011f11727222fd64e119283a125e25c851931aaf1d/image-3_1910_present.png" data-mid="134782012" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/82b4a81c301d5a4379cea4011f11727222fd64e119283a125e25c851931aaf1d/image-3_1910_present.png" /> Map overlay Overlay of maps of the Haus der Statistik area from 1910 and the early 90s illustrating the redevelopment of the area after World War II. ©R Stein Wexler Jeeyong Can you tell me about the image you put on the ZK/U website, the picture of people? Stein That photo was taken at the senior home. That's the only photo that I've found of the residents. And I overlaid it with a photograph of the site today in the exact orientation that they were sitting in that photo based on the angle of the shadows.<img width="3000" height="3000" width_o="3000" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/addfeeb8f7003e1498f917f96e79be19de293f42b2883a488cc839df90cdd727/image-5_photo-overlayc-R-Stein-Wexler.jpg" data-mid="134866368" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/addfeeb8f7003e1498f917f96e79be19de293f42b2883a488cc839df90cdd727/image-5_photo-overlayc-R-Stein-Wexler.jpg" />Hof image overlayed on BerolinastraßeStein edited the only remaining image of senior home residents and placed them into the contemporary urban context exactly where they were sitting in the 1930s. ©R Stein Wexler <img width="3000" height="2250" width_o="3000" height_o="2250" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/97b2ef24eb713b6819464342c5ed51fa0398669e306afd579a8cb5320d637082/image-4_Ein-jahr-hilf-und-aufbau.jpg" data-mid="134866367" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/97b2ef24eb713b6819464342c5ed51fa0398669e306afd579a8cb5320d637082/image-4_Ein-jahr-hilf-und-aufbau.jpg" />Senior home hofPublished in 1934, this image was found in the Berlin Jewish Museum archive. To date, it is the only known photograph of Gerlachstraße 18/21 senior home residents. (Source: Ein Jahr Hilfe und Aufbau. Hrsg. vom Zentralausschuss der deutschen Juden für Hilfe und Aufbau. Berlin, 1934.) Jeeyoung Would you please tell me about the process of the project that you are working on now? How could you show your work at Haus der Statistik? Did the people at ZK/U help you? Or did you find that place by yourself? Stein I've definitely been supported by the project team from the ZK/U and Harry on the management team of Haus der Statistik. That's been immensely helpful. And, Matthias is my host for my fellowship at ZK/U. He has been very supportive and has helped me with building connections and navigating the culturally sensitive topics here; what words to use and what words not to use. Also, this neighborhood organization that I mentioned and woman who's on the board of that organization have been really helpful as well. They've been really supportive of this project. And if it weren't for them, I wouldn't be doing it. They’re financially supporting the project. And my fellowship has allowed me to do all the research and project development. I would say those have been the main enablers for the project. Jeeyoung I have impression that people in Germany are really supportive to the practices related to Holocaust. Do you think that is true? Stein I think it's very complicated coming from the United States context. It feels very different here. The discussion around memorials and the memorial practice are more developed here. But there's blindness towards the issue of authorship. Who is making the work? This question is a very strong focus in the States. The question is about who is allowed to tell whose story. This is a big question, and it is very challenging for artists who are not part of a victim community, if not impossible for them to tell the victim story, whereas here, that doesn't seem to be part of the conversation. As far as I know, many Holocaust memorials and monuments are authored by non-Jewish Germans, although that is just my impression. Jeeyoung Yes, you are right. Also, the American architect (Peter Eisenman) designed Holocaust Memorial (2005) in Berlin. Stein Yeah, I don't know if he's Jewish. I think there's less focus on the identity of the artist and what their subjectivity might be bringing to the piece. This brings up really interesting issues of guilt. Should the guilty party also be part of the narrative? These are questions that I have no clear answers to but it gets to issues of ‘absolution’. Are you familiar with this word? It comes from religious terminology, but it's when you commit a sin, and then you can reverse the sin by doing something else and then you're absolved of your sin. So like if you steal something and then you say 10 prayers then you're absolved. That's called absolution.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I find ‘Stolpersteine︎︎︎’ a very effective Memorial. I'm tremendously inspired by this counter Memorial movement. Jeeyoung Yes, as you know, people in Berlin have to encounter a lot of memorials everyday. I want to know about their mentality like what they would feel from Holocaust memorials. One month is too short to do research for it, so I don't know whether I can hear from people what they really feel and think about them. Anyway, I am going to ask people about Holocaust education in school as well. Stein I’d love to know what you learn. Would you please tell me what you are working on in Korea? Jeeyoung I have focused on historical sites related to May 18 People’s Uprising that happened in Gwangju in 1980 for two years now. There are 29 May 18 Historic Sites currently. One of them is the former Jeonnam Provincial Office, which is immensely important, as it was the last place of resistance, and I came to realize that conflicts had occurred while discussing its usage plan. This made me think that a lot of detailed aspects of problems related to Gwangju and May 18 commemoration lacked mediation. Although I think I might not fully understand these situations and have not researched quite much, there would be errors, but let me just briefly share what I have seen and found.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; First, the subject of the conflict covers bereaved families, imprisoned people, and injured people on May 18, who belong to the May 18 victim’s group. At a glance, they seem to be eager to exercise their influence or make decisions on matters about May 18. Only a few of them are publicly active, and their opinions are thought to represent the victim’s group by major May 18 institutions and administration offices. The victim’s group wants the former Jeonnam Provincial Office to be restored to its previous form in 1980. However, people in the victim’s group do not share the same opinion. Many different interests are entangled in that group, so it is hard to say simply what they want as a group. And actually, it is not certain whether they have rights or power to decide in the society. I think people need to be interested in behind the scene like what caused each victim’s current situation.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In addition, no one is sure about how much citizens are heard when deciding on something. Most of the Historic Sites are locked, and how they will be utilized is seldom shared with citizens. People have become more indifferent to things related to May 18, maybe because they are sick and tired of the seemingly aggressive attitude of the victims. For instance, the victim’s group is occupying the former Jeonnam Provincial Office and continuing siege.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; May 18 commemoration has used very heavy, solemn, and sorrowful language, and the atmosphere in May in Gwangju is totally different from other cities every year. I only assume that if I investigate the reason why people have stick to this way of commemoration this will lead me to understand political and cultural contexts in Korea. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Recently, I’ve heard that artists, curators, researchers, and activists, who are the young generation born after 1980 when May 18 occurred, have believed in possibilities of new way of commemoration and tried to make it happen. The way they have approached May 18 is far from tragedy, and they have been finding how to commemorate May 18 with the media, which are familiar to them for 5 to 6 years until now.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; However, the young generation confronted criticism from the victim’s group and the older generation. They asked, “How much do you think you know about May 18?” The young group said that they felt like they were blamed and judged. I think the victim’s group and older generation questioned qualification or authority to talk on what the young did not experience.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Moreover, international art institutions in Gwangju, such as Gwangju Biennale and Asia Culture Center, cannot be separated from May 18 because they were established in relation to May 18 in the first place. They have been constantly talking about May 18 through various projects with national and international artists and curators. However, the people who perform those artistic practices are not free from judgment by the victim’s group, either. They criticize the artists and curators that they diminish the importance of historic sites or dilute the true meaning of the uprising. With a few of those cases, I have realized that some people strongly distrust the intervention of arts to May 18.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have observed situations where people disagree with one another about May 18 Historic Sites or problems regarding commemoration in Gwangju, and I have thought about what I can do here. I was able to meet people with different interests and opinions in 2021, including the victims themselves. This experience made me think that I should mediate in disputes, not having a fixed role nor belonging to an interested party. Stein Keep me updated on your project. I would love to, even if it is in Korean, see what you write and produce. I have a book. Let me get it. You may have heard of this book* already, it’s very much about the United States and Germany. I mean, this is a very Western approach but the last chapter really talks about a process which could be relatable to the process you’re investigating. This case study came to mind with regards to the process of serving victims community. The &nbsp;incident happened in a much more recently, in the 80’s. People who experienced it are still alive, as opposed to something like the Holocaust. I appreciated the author’s perspective because he is on curatorial and commissioning boards. He is writing from the perspective of a mediator. *James E Young. The Stages of Memory: Reflections on Memorial Art, Loss, and the Spaces Between (Public History in Historical Perspective), University of Massachusetts Press, 2016 Jeeyoung Thank you so much. Now, I am really curious what kind of project you will do if you come to Gwangju. Stein &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jeeyoung, that would be not only an enormous honor but also a very challenging project. It is a precarious position to be an outsider of a community one would like to serve. Therefore, I would position myself more as a facilitator to encourage project development that would serve the diverse needs of project stakeholders. My loose methodology includes a research phase, relationship building, concept development, project piloting, concept adjustment, and then project delivery. This structure is intentionally vague to allow for and support deep engagement with the community. I would not come into the project with a particular outcome in mind.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This methodology will result in rather than a static installation, more likely a methodology or ritual which can metamorphosize over time to serve the shifting present needs of the community that it serves. Memory, remembrance, and history are not cast in stone. They change and develop through time and through the lens of contemporary issues and perspectives. Therefore, commemoration projects should be similarly malleable in order to be relevant to the community it is intended to serve. To help illustrate the methodology I’ll tell you about how I’ve applied it in Fügung des Schicksals, in Berlin. Video︎︎︎Fügung des Schicksals docu A short video documenting the community engagement process of Fügung des Schicksals [Twist of Fate] &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Should I be invited to participate in the memorial-making process I would first develop relationships and knowledge. This would include requesting the close collaboration or assistance of an artist or researcher who is based in Gwangju. Second of all, I would conduct research both through written and recorded sources as well as through interviews and informal conversations with parties invested in the memorialization of May 18th including victims groups and organizations already engaged in commemoration.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In Berlin, I visited numerous archives, developed relationships with three neighborhood organizations, as well as working relationships with more traditional researchers who had already unearthed material about the site.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This research would serve both the purpose of information gathering and also of building trust and relationships. Based on the research I would identify themes, conflicts, and points of commonality between groups and positions. That phase would also serve to start building a coalition of collaborators who can provide constructive feedback and support. Based on emergent themes and commonalities, I would start developing a project concept working in close collaboration with the project collaborator and a supporting coalition.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The research and relationship building phase of Fügung des Schicksals revealed a desire for neighborhood residents to commemorate the history of the site as well as the bureaucratic nature of existing records documenting the history of the senior home.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Once a project concept has been drafted, I will run a short pilot to demonstrate how the project could function in the public sphere. During this phase members of the project coalition as well as members of the public will be invited to participate in a process and to also offer feedback to be integrated into the project launch.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In June of 2021 I held an open house event at Haus der Statistik during which neighborhood residents could not only come learn from initial research I had conducted about the history of the site but also read and interpret historical documents I had found pertaining to its history. This project pilot engaged neighborhood residents in the research process and started conversations around memorialization among the public. <img width="3000" height="2250" width_o="3000" height_o="2250" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/948d27e70b09a2561183f62bfaa95d307436f945c7d7f616f5eb0d8d0358ecac/image-6_june-open-house-c-R-Stein-Wexler.jpg" data-mid="134727311" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/948d27e70b09a2561183f62bfaa95d307436f945c7d7f616f5eb0d8d0358ecac/image-6_june-open-house-c-R-Stein-Wexler.jpg" /> June open houseDuring an open house event at Haus der Statistik in June 2021, Stein invited neighborhood residents to analyze archival documents pertaining to the senior home. ©R Stein Wexler After the pilot and feedback stage, I would integrate suggestions and criticism into the project and then launch the final concept. At this point, I would hand over stewardship to a local person, group, or organization; one that had been closely involved with the project from the research phase.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; One particular document, the Transport List made by the Nazis, stood out among community members. So the final project of the phase consisted of a public installation of information on the site as well as a collaborative reading and recording of the names of former residents of the home. The recording is now playing on loop at the educational installation. However, this phase dovetails into a coming phase. During the recording session, I invited participants to consider the question “What do you want to be when you grow old?” and write or draw their responses. This exercise drew attention to the taboo topic of aging and brought the experiences of the senior home residents closer to today’s participants. The next phase of the project, occurring in 2022 will use those responses to develop the project process further. <img width="3000" height="2000" width_o="3000" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/695165f9f1d7bd5da82d9c3715130fa98afd20199ead0e2ff1f9c35111cec192/image-7__rico_prauss.jpg" data-mid="134727312" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/695165f9f1d7bd5da82d9c3715130fa98afd20199ead0e2ff1f9c35111cec192/image-7__rico_prauss.jpg" />Reading events Over the course of three days, neighborhood residents and the general public were invited to read the names of former senior home residents. The readings were recorded, edited, and now play on loop at the site of the former home. ©Rico Prauss I am aware that this proposal sounds nebulous. However, I believe this structure is necessary to avoid a prescriptive commemoration process. Out of this structure would emerge a process that builds trust and community among project stakeholders providing them with tools to continue building unity and understanding into the future which could help to nurse present-day wounds. <img width="3000" height="2000" width_o="3000" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/3bad977f92af77bc1802de4c8a99d544282d78912aef811670c80969322d0a7e/image-8__rico_prauss.jpg" data-mid="134727313" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/3bad977f92af77bc1802de4c8a99d544282d78912aef811670c80969322d0a7e/image-8__rico_prauss.jpg" />Opening eventOn January 27, 2022, also the International Holocaust Remembrance Day, the audio-educational installation was opened during an on-site ceremony. ©Rico Prauss https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JaneH_kor Tue, 22 Feb 2022 15:21:23 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JaneH_kor English 인터뷰 황제인&nbsp;(예술가) 개인 홈페이지︎︎︎ 2021년 12월 20일 대면 인터뷰와 2022년 1월 19일 이메일 인터뷰&nbsp;인터뷰이지영번역황제인 <img width="3000" height="2002" width_o="3000" height_o="2002" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/cf041154f18c52b94d06402857c02d7ac5bffd47210383d5a34076c80679963c/CC_4.jpg" data-mid="134340725" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/cf041154f18c52b94d06402857c02d7ac5bffd47210383d5a34076c80679963c/CC_4.jpg" /> Cloudchoir for our Beloved (2020), Photo by Dongryoung Han 지영 본인에 대한&nbsp;간략한&nbsp;소개를&nbsp;부탁합니다. 제인 베를린과 서울을 오가며 작업을 하고 있는 황제인입니다. 저는 역사와 현재&nbsp;그리고&nbsp;미래를&nbsp;구분&nbsp;짓는&nbsp;경계에&nbsp;관한&nbsp;연구를&nbsp;시간&nbsp;기반&nbsp;미술로&nbsp;표현합니다.&nbsp;특히,&nbsp;우리의&nbsp;과거사를&nbsp;바탕으로한&nbsp;학제&nbsp;간&nbsp;연구와&nbsp;더불어&nbsp;기념문화의&nbsp;디지털화에&nbsp;관심이&nbsp;많습니다.&nbsp;현재&nbsp;베를린&nbsp;예술대학 “아트&nbsp;인&nbsp;컨텍스트”에서&nbsp;석사과정 중입니다. 지영 “운창단” 작업을&nbsp;시작하게&nbsp;된&nbsp;계기와&nbsp;의도에&nbsp;대해&nbsp;설명해&nbsp;주세요. 제인 ‘임을 위한 행진곡’을 동료 작가들과 다양한 언어로 함께 부른 프로젝트 CloudChoir for our Beloved(운창단), 2020는 우연한 경험에서&nbsp;비롯되었습니다. 2019년겨울,&nbsp;사운드를&nbsp;주제로&nbsp;한&nbsp;세미나에서&nbsp;‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’&nbsp;원본을&nbsp;재생하여&nbsp;다양한&nbsp;국적의&nbsp;예술가들과&nbsp;함께&nbsp;들어본&nbsp;적이&nbsp;있어요.&nbsp;역사적&nbsp;배경이나&nbsp;곡이&nbsp;녹음된 당시의&nbsp;상황을&nbsp;설명하지&nbsp;않았음에도,&nbsp;그&nbsp;자리에&nbsp;있던&nbsp;청자&nbsp;모두가&nbsp;곡이&nbsp;전달하는&nbsp;긴박감을&nbsp;느낄&nbsp;수&nbsp;있었습니다.&nbsp;가사를&nbsp;몰라도&nbsp;곡의&nbsp;진행과&nbsp;분위기가&nbsp;자기&nbsp;나라의&nbsp;민중가요를&nbsp;연상시킨다는&nbsp;반응도&nbsp;있었어요. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ‘임을 위한 행진곡’이 언어와 문화를 초월하여 지금 시대에도 즉각적으로 깊은 공감을 불러 일으켰던 그 경험이&nbsp;이&nbsp;프로젝트를&nbsp;시작하게&nbsp;된&nbsp;계기입니다.&nbsp;감상을&nbsp;통해&nbsp;나눈&nbsp;공감대를&nbsp;노래를&nbsp;부르는&nbsp;행위로&nbsp;확장시키고,&nbsp;이를&nbsp;통해&nbsp;언어와&nbsp;지역을&nbsp;뛰어넘는&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;작가들&nbsp;간의&nbsp;연대를&nbsp;표현하고자&nbsp;했습니다.&nbsp;처음부터&nbsp;협업을&nbsp;염두에&nbsp;두고&nbsp;프로젝트를&nbsp;기획해&nbsp;나갔고,&nbsp;그&nbsp;때문에&nbsp;제목&nbsp;'CloudChoir’도&nbsp;참여작가들이&nbsp;자신이&nbsp;위치한&nbsp;곳&nbsp;어디에서든&nbsp;녹음을&nbsp;하고&nbsp;음원을&nbsp;업로드하여&nbsp;합창한다는&nbsp;의미와&nbsp;‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’의&nbsp;영문&nbsp;제목인&nbsp;‘Marching for our Beloved’를&nbsp;결합하였습니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 작품은 영상과 함께 20분 길이의 카세트테이프로 제작이 되었는데, 이는 물론원곡이 최초로 카세트테이프에&nbsp;녹음이&nbsp;되어&nbsp;배포된&nbsp;점을&nbsp;차용한&nbsp;것입니다.&nbsp;카세트테이프는&nbsp;독특한&nbsp;익명성을&nbsp;지닌&nbsp;매체입니다.&nbsp;미리듣기가&nbsp;가능한&nbsp;디지털&nbsp;음원과는&nbsp;달리,&nbsp;청자는&nbsp;재생버튼을&nbsp;누르기&nbsp;전까지&nbsp;그&nbsp;안에&nbsp;무엇이&nbsp;들어있는지&nbsp;전혀알&nbsp;수가&nbsp;없습니다.&nbsp;또한,&nbsp;카세트테이프가&nbsp;소리를&nbsp;풀어나가는&nbsp;선형적인&nbsp;방식에초점을&nbsp;맞추었습니다.&nbsp;카세트테이프로&nbsp;듣는&nbsp;음악은&nbsp;즉각적으로&nbsp;건너뛰거나&nbsp;처음으로&nbsp;되돌아가&nbsp;재생할&nbsp;수&nbsp;없습니다.&nbsp;건너뛰기&nbsp;위해서는&nbsp;빨리&nbsp;감기를&nbsp;누른&nbsp;상태로&nbsp;테이프가&nbsp;앞으로&nbsp;감기는&nbsp;시간이&nbsp;소요되고,&nbsp;또&nbsp;음악을&nbsp;처음부터&nbsp;듣기&nbsp;위해서는&nbsp;마지막까지&nbsp;감상을&nbsp;한&nbsp;뒤,&nbsp;테이프를&nbsp;돌려&nbsp;꽂는&nbsp;방식이니까요.&nbsp;카세트테이프를&nbsp;사용함으로써&nbsp;음악을&nbsp;듣는&nbsp;행위를&nbsp;조금은&nbsp;불편하고도&nbsp;수고스럽게&nbsp;만들고싶었고,&nbsp;이를&nbsp;통해&nbsp;청자에게&nbsp;더욱&nbsp;적극적인&nbsp;감상&nbsp;행위를&nbsp;요구하고자&nbsp;했습니다. <img width="2002" height="3000" width_o="2002" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/317dfacc2c6d928e20a4346868c8a50ec0a1ca41bd4a083ea6f645c77c2988b4/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-002.jpg" data-mid="134340727" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/317dfacc2c6d928e20a4346868c8a50ec0a1ca41bd4a083ea6f645c77c2988b4/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-002.jpg" /><img width="2002" height="3000" width_o="2002" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/15e7b70969791d8177fb96eafb32b7b2291b92ac15e42150b7f43d870a76f2dd/CC_1.jpg" data-mid="134340724" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/15e7b70969791d8177fb96eafb32b7b2291b92ac15e42150b7f43d870a76f2dd/CC_1.jpg" />Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020, Compact cassette, 20 mins, 50 edition1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD, sound 2020 Photo by Dongryoung Han 지영 작업을 어떻게&nbsp;진행하였는지&nbsp;그&nbsp;과정에&nbsp;대해&nbsp;자세히&nbsp;이야기&nbsp;해&nbsp;주시겠어요? 제인 먼저, 노래가 불리는&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;지역&nbsp;언어로&nbsp;한정&nbsp;짓고&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가를&nbsp;모집했습니다.&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가의&nbsp;모집&nbsp;조건은&nbsp;무엇보다도&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;지역의&nbsp;자유와&nbsp;인권을지지한다는&nbsp;것을&nbsp;전제로&nbsp;하였습니다.&nbsp;페이스북에&nbsp;오픈&nbsp;콜을&nbsp;게시하고,&nbsp;학과&nbsp;내에&nbsp;단체&nbsp;이메일을&nbsp;발송하고,&nbsp;개인적인&nbsp;네트워크를&nbsp;활용하여&nbsp;최종적으로&nbsp;9명의 참가자를&nbsp;확정하였습니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ‘임을 위한 행진곡’에 대한 소개와 리서치 자료를 한 눈에 볼 수 있는 웹페이지를 만들어 작가들과 공유하였고,&nbsp;여러&nbsp;국가의&nbsp;언어로&nbsp;번역&nbsp;또는&nbsp;번안된&nbsp;가사를 첨부하였습니다.&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가들은&nbsp;영문&nbsp;번역본을&nbsp;바탕으로&nbsp;하여&nbsp;각자의&nbsp;언어로&nbsp;된 가사를&nbsp;검토하였는데,&nbsp;이&nbsp;과정에서&nbsp;기존에&nbsp;번역본이&nbsp;없던&nbsp;텔루구어와&nbsp;바하사&nbsp;인도네시아어를&nbsp;작가들이&nbsp;직접&nbsp;번역을&nbsp;하였습니다.&nbsp;이렇듯&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가들의&nbsp;용기와 수고가&nbsp;깃들어&nbsp;만들어진&nbsp;결과물입니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;참여 작가들에게는 가장 편안하고 안전한 장소에서 원하는 템포로 노래를 부를것을 요구하고,&nbsp;그&nbsp;모습을&nbsp;촬영하여&nbsp;파일을&nbsp;업로드할&nbsp;것을&nbsp;요청했어요.&nbsp;원한다면&nbsp;익명으로&nbsp;촬영을&nbsp;할&nbsp;수&nbsp;있으며,&nbsp;보이스&nbsp;필터나&nbsp;페이스&nbsp;필터를&nbsp;사용하거나&nbsp;목소리만&nbsp;녹음하는&nbsp;것도&nbsp;가능하다고&nbsp;안내를&nbsp;했습니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 텔루구어 번역을 진행했던 인도의 젊은 작가는 카메라 앞에서 신분이 노출되는것에 위기감을 느껴, 번역에 도움을 준 스페인 작가만 촬영을&nbsp;진행하기로&nbsp;했습니다.&nbsp;한&nbsp;아르헨티나&nbsp;뮤지션은&nbsp;우연한&nbsp;계기로&nbsp;이&nbsp;프로젝트를&nbsp;알게&nbsp;되었는데,&nbsp;기획의도에&nbsp;깊이&nbsp;공감하여&nbsp;참여하고&nbsp;싶지만&nbsp;노래를&nbsp;부를&nbsp;만큼&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;언어에&nbsp;능통하지&nbsp;못하다며&nbsp;자신이&nbsp;가장&nbsp;자신&nbsp;있는&nbsp;언어인&nbsp;음악으로&nbsp;표현을&nbsp;해도&nbsp;되겠느냐고 연락을&nbsp;해왔어요.&nbsp;결국&nbsp;카메라&nbsp;앞에서&nbsp;직접&nbsp;편곡한&nbsp;곡을&nbsp;기타로&nbsp;연주하는&nbsp;영상을&nbsp;보내왔습니다.&nbsp;광동어로&nbsp;노래를&nbsp;부른&nbsp;아시아계&nbsp;미국&nbsp;작가는&nbsp;유창하지&nbsp;않은 언어실력에도&nbsp;불구하고&nbsp;더듬거리는&nbsp;목소리로&nbsp;용감하게&nbsp;노래를&nbsp;불러주었고요.&nbsp;작가들이&nbsp;보내온&nbsp;영상과&nbsp;음원마다&nbsp;느껴지는&nbsp;저마다의&nbsp;공간감을&nbsp;최대한&nbsp;유지하여&nbsp;영상을&nbsp;자르고&nbsp;합쳐&nbsp;4분&nbsp;45초의&nbsp;영상을&nbsp;만들었습니다.&nbsp;카세트테이프와&nbsp;포스터를&nbsp;함께&nbsp;제작했는데,&nbsp;카세트테이프의&nbsp;경우,&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가들의&nbsp;음원을&nbsp;편집없이 연결하였고,&nbsp;앞뒤로&nbsp;나레이션을&nbsp;첨부하였습니다. 20분&nbsp;길이의&nbsp;재생시간이&nbsp;하나의&nbsp;여정과도&nbsp;같이&nbsp;느껴지도록&nbsp;만들었어요.&nbsp;시각적으로는&nbsp;언뜻&nbsp;실험적인&nbsp;독립&nbsp;레이블의&nbsp;앨범처럼&nbsp;보이기를&nbsp;바랐는데,&nbsp;역사적&nbsp;사건의&nbsp;무게감이&nbsp;보는&nbsp;이를&nbsp;압도하지&nbsp;않도록&nbsp;의도적으로&nbsp;많은&nbsp;부분을&nbsp;덜어내며&nbsp;기획을&nbsp;해나갔습니다.&nbsp;그럼에도,&nbsp;카세트테이프&nbsp;자켓에는&nbsp;기본적인&nbsp;역사적&nbsp;배경설명과&nbsp;사진을&nbsp;몇&nbsp;가지&nbsp;첨부하고싶은&nbsp;욕심이&nbsp;있었는데,&nbsp;디자인을&nbsp;맡아&nbsp;준&nbsp;동료&nbsp;작가가&nbsp;5·18 당시의&nbsp;사진은&nbsp;딱&nbsp;한장만&nbsp;남기자고&nbsp;하더라고요.&nbsp;부연설명을&nbsp;최소화하고&nbsp;곡의&nbsp;가사에&nbsp;집중한&nbsp;디자인은&nbsp;결과적으로&nbsp;잘한&nbsp;선택이었습니다.&nbsp;이렇게&nbsp;50개의&nbsp;카세트테이프와&nbsp;100장의 포스터를&nbsp;만들었고,&nbsp;세계&nbsp;곳곳에&nbsp;거주하는&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가들에게&nbsp;각각&nbsp;두&nbsp;개의&nbsp;카세트테이프를&nbsp;우편으로&nbsp;보냈습니다.&nbsp;한&nbsp;개는&nbsp;본인을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;것,&nbsp;그리고&nbsp;또&nbsp;하나는&nbsp;들려주고&nbsp;싶은&nbsp;누군가에게&nbsp;보내기를&nbsp;바라면서요.&nbsp;부에노스아이레스로&nbsp;보낸&nbsp;편지봉투가&nbsp;분실이&nbsp;되는&nbsp;바람에&nbsp;다시&nbsp;발송을&nbsp;한&nbsp;것&nbsp;빼고는&nbsp;별다른&nbsp;사고&nbsp;없이&nbsp;모두&nbsp;잘 도착했습니다. <img width="1920" height="1080" width_o="1920" height_o="1080" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/7b9248490e8d8702eef708f68518568df09e566aa4f5c0d1527a9304dcb74f7d/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-003.png" data-mid="134340728" border="0" data-no-zoom alt="Video Still Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020 1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD" data-caption="Video Still Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020 1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/7b9248490e8d8702eef708f68518568df09e566aa4f5c0d1527a9304dcb74f7d/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-003.png" />Video Still, Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020 1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD 지영 작업을 진행하면서&nbsp;어려운&nbsp;점은&nbsp;없었는지요? 제인 더욱 다양한 국가 출신의&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가를&nbsp;모집하는&nbsp;일은&nbsp;여전히&nbsp;아쉬움으로남습니다.&nbsp;자료에&nbsp;따르면&nbsp;‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’이&nbsp;크메르어와&nbsp;버마어,&nbsp;태국어로&nbsp;불렸던&nbsp;기록이&nbsp;남아있지만,&nbsp;이&nbsp;프로젝트에는&nbsp;해당&nbsp;국가&nbsp;출신의&nbsp;참여자가&nbsp;없습니다.&nbsp;위에&nbsp;말씀드린&nbsp;오픈&nbsp;콜이나&nbsp;페이스북&nbsp;등으로&nbsp;해당&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;구사하는&nbsp;작가들을&nbsp;추가로&nbsp;모집하는&nbsp;글을&nbsp;올리고,&nbsp;급기야&nbsp;프리랜서&nbsp;성우를&nbsp;고용하는&nbsp;플랫폼을 통해&nbsp;각&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;사용하는&nbsp;성우들을&nbsp;찾아&nbsp;수십&nbsp;건의&nbsp;메세지를&nbsp;발송했습니다.&nbsp;프로젝트를&nbsp;설명하고,&nbsp;원한다면&nbsp;철저히&nbsp;익명으로&nbsp;진행할&nbsp;수&nbsp;있으며,&nbsp;노래가&nbsp;어렵다면&nbsp;나레이션이라도&nbsp;좋다고&nbsp;말이죠.&nbsp;처음에는&nbsp;프로젝트&nbsp;의뢰에&nbsp;관심을&nbsp;보이던 성우들이&nbsp;자세한&nbsp;내용을&nbsp;공유하자&nbsp;이런저런&nbsp;이유로&nbsp;모두&nbsp;거절했습니다.&nbsp;녹음료를&nbsp;벌기&nbsp;위해&nbsp;정치행위를&nbsp;하지&nbsp;않는다는&nbsp;답변도&nbsp;받았습니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 당시에는 당황했지만 시간이 조금 흘러 다시 생각하니, 안일했던 저의 태도가 부끄러워졌어요. 누군가에겐 당연하게 부를 수 있는 자유라는 이름이 다른 누군가에겐 많은&nbsp;어려움과&nbsp;위험이&nbsp;따를&nbsp;수&nbsp;있음을&nbsp;인지하지&nbsp;못했습니다.&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;국가&nbsp;각각의&nbsp;특수성을&nbsp;고려하여&nbsp;더욱&nbsp;세밀한&nbsp;접근이&nbsp;필요했습니다.&nbsp;이&nbsp;과정에서 더욱&nbsp;광범위하게&nbsp;프로젝트를&nbsp;홍보하여&nbsp;참여자를&nbsp;모집하고,&nbsp;또&nbsp;그들을&nbsp;설득하고 믿음을&nbsp;줄&nbsp;수&nbsp;있는&nbsp;건&nbsp;기관의&nbsp;역할임을&nbsp;느끼게&nbsp;되었습니다.&nbsp;기관을&nbsp;컨택하고&nbsp;협조를&nbsp;이끌어내는&nbsp;과정에도&nbsp;어려움이&nbsp;있었습니다.&nbsp;번역에&nbsp;수고한&nbsp;참여&nbsp;작가들에게&nbsp;조금이라도&nbsp;아티스트&nbsp;피를&nbsp;지급할&nbsp;수&nbsp;있는&nbsp;방법을&nbsp;생각하다, 5·18 관련&nbsp;재단에&nbsp;연락하여&nbsp;후원을&nbsp;요청&nbsp;드린&nbsp;적이&nbsp;있습니다.&nbsp;흔쾌히&nbsp;관련&nbsp;자료를&nbsp;보내&nbsp;달라하시기에&nbsp;프로젝트&nbsp;소개와&nbsp;함께&nbsp;후원요청서를&nbsp;준비하여&nbsp;보내드렸더니,&nbsp;아무런 답이&nbsp;없으시더라고요.&nbsp;아쉽지만,&nbsp;기관의&nbsp;도움&nbsp;여부와는&nbsp;상관없이&nbsp;프로젝트를&nbsp;진행해 나갔습니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 다행히, 베를린 예술대학 내 학생자치단체에서 심사를 통해 프로젝트 제작에 대한 재료비 명목의 지원금을 받을 수 있었습니다. 당장 눈에&nbsp;보이는&nbsp;전시에&nbsp;대한 지원&nbsp;뿐&nbsp;아니라,&nbsp;작품&nbsp;제작에&nbsp;대한&nbsp;지원이&nbsp;확대되어야만&nbsp;5·18에&nbsp;대한&nbsp;담론이&nbsp;예술&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;통해&nbsp;지속적으로&nbsp;형성될&nbsp;수&nbsp;있지&nbsp;않을까&nbsp;생각합니다.&nbsp;또&nbsp;하나&nbsp;아쉬웠던&nbsp;점은,&nbsp;관련&nbsp;자료를&nbsp;한&nbsp;눈에&nbsp;볼&nbsp;수&nbsp;있는&nbsp;아카이브가&nbsp;없다는&nbsp;것이었습니다. 5·18기념재단의&nbsp;경우,&nbsp;우리말&nbsp;홈페이지에는&nbsp;“님을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡”&nbsp;페이지가&nbsp;별도로&nbsp;마련되어&nbsp;있지만,&nbsp;영문&nbsp;홈페이지에는&nbsp;해당&nbsp;내용이&nbsp;누락되어&nbsp;있습니다. 5·18민주화운동기록관&nbsp;역시&nbsp;국문과&nbsp;영문&nbsp;홈페이지&nbsp;사이에&nbsp;정보가&nbsp;불균형합니다. ‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’은&nbsp;여러&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;국가의&nbsp;언어로&nbsp;번역,&nbsp;번안되어&nbsp;자발적으로&nbsp;불렸지만,&nbsp;재단이나 기관에서&nbsp;공식적으로&nbsp;수집하고&nbsp;공개한&nbsp;자료가&nbsp;없기&nbsp;때문에,&nbsp;부정확할지도&nbsp;모르는&nbsp;인터넷&nbsp;검색에&nbsp;의존해야&nbsp;했습니다.&nbsp;물론,&nbsp;그&nbsp;덕분에&nbsp;이렇게&nbsp;창작자가&nbsp;개입할&nbsp;여지가&nbsp;생긴&nbsp;것은&nbsp;분명합니다. 지영 이 작업을&nbsp;더&nbsp;발전시키고&nbsp;싶은&nbsp;생각이&nbsp;있는지요?&nbsp;있다면&nbsp;어떤&nbsp;지원이&nbsp;필요할까요? 제인 앞서 말씀드린 점들을 보완해서 프로젝트를 계속&nbsp;진행시키고&nbsp;싶은&nbsp;마음이 큽니다.&nbsp;계속해서&nbsp;새로운&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;추가해나가며&nbsp;2집, 3집을&nbsp;발매한다면&nbsp;아시아 전&nbsp;지역&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;아우르는&nbsp;재미있는&nbsp;아카이브가&nbsp;되겠죠.&nbsp;아시아&nbsp;지역에는&nbsp;더&nbsp;이상&nbsp;사용되지&nbsp;않는&nbsp;고어나&nbsp;사어가&nbsp;많습니다. ‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’이&nbsp;멸종&nbsp;위기에 처한&nbsp;언어를&nbsp;보존하는&nbsp;매개체가&nbsp;될&nbsp;수도&nbsp;있을&nbsp;것입니다. ‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’이세계로&nbsp;퍼져나가는&nbsp;과정에서&nbsp;해당&nbsp;국가의&nbsp;그&nbsp;당시&nbsp;시대성을&nbsp;반영해&nbsp;개사가&nbsp;되었던&nbsp;것처럼,&nbsp;지금의&nbsp;요구에&nbsp;맞춰&nbsp;끊임없이&nbsp;새로&nbsp;쓰이고,&nbsp;새로&nbsp;불릴&nbsp;수&nbsp;있는&nbsp;가능성이&nbsp;있습니다.&nbsp;다만,&nbsp;이&nbsp;이후로는&nbsp;예술가&nbsp;개인의&nbsp;영역을&nbsp;넘어&nbsp;기관의&nbsp;적극적인&nbsp;도움이&nbsp;바탕이&nbsp;되어야&nbsp;합니다.&nbsp;참여자를&nbsp;모집하는&nbsp;것뿐만&nbsp;아니라,&nbsp;그들이&nbsp;마음껏 표현할&nbsp;수&nbsp;있는&nbsp;안전지대를&nbsp;형성해야&nbsp;하며,&nbsp;참여자들이&nbsp;가사를&nbsp;검토하고&nbsp;번역이나&nbsp;번안,&nbsp;개사를&nbsp;하는데&nbsp;들이는&nbsp;수고&nbsp;또한&nbsp;보상받을&nbsp;수&nbsp;있어야합니다.&nbsp;이&nbsp;과정에서&nbsp;연구자들이&nbsp;기록을&nbsp;만들고,&nbsp;아카이브를&nbsp;확장시켜&nbsp;나가야만&nbsp;‘임을&nbsp;위한&nbsp;행진곡’이&nbsp;지니는&nbsp;대표성과&nbsp;영향력이&nbsp;시대를&nbsp;거듭하여&nbsp;새로운&nbsp;맥락을&nbsp;재생산해낼&nbsp;자력이&nbsp;생긴다고&nbsp;생각합니다. 지영 5·18과 관련하여 새롭게&nbsp;시도해보고&nbsp;싶은&nbsp;작업이&nbsp;있나요? 제인 ‘임을 위한 행진곡’을 시작으로 하여 저항을 상징하는&nbsp;소리에&nbsp;대한&nbsp;리서치를&nbsp;진행해보고&nbsp;싶습니다.&nbsp;학생운동에서는&nbsp;박자와&nbsp;음을&nbsp;맞춰&nbsp;부르는&nbsp;노래나&nbsp;함성,&nbsp;구호&nbsp;뿐&nbsp;아니라&nbsp;듣기&nbsp;거북한&nbsp;소리로&nbsp;간주되는&nbsp;소음,&nbsp;고함&nbsp;등&nbsp;다양한&nbsp;소리들이 존재할&nbsp;것입니다.&nbsp;가끔은&nbsp;잘&nbsp;만들어진&nbsp;노래&nbsp;한&nbsp;곡보다도,&nbsp;구호&nbsp;사이사이에&nbsp;흘려말하듯&nbsp;터져&nbsp;나오는&nbsp;고함,&nbsp;누군가&nbsp;울분을&nbsp;터뜨리며&nbsp;제대로&nbsp;알아듣지도&nbsp;못할&nbsp;외침이&nbsp;시대를&nbsp;표현하는&nbsp;소리가&nbsp;될&nbsp;수도&nbsp;있습니다.&nbsp;이처럼,&nbsp;여러&nbsp;문화권의&nbsp;저항운동에&nbsp;등장했던&nbsp;수많은&nbsp;소리들&nbsp;중,&nbsp;음악이나&nbsp;구호와&nbsp;같이&nbsp;공식적으로&nbsp;기록되지않은&nbsp;소음,&nbsp;즉&nbsp;해결되어야만&nbsp;하는&nbsp;불협화음*을&nbsp;찾아&nbsp;시대적&nbsp;패턴을&nbsp;들여다보는일도&nbsp;흥미로울&nbsp;것&nbsp;입니다.&nbsp;현&nbsp;젊은&nbsp;세대의&nbsp;저항이라면,&nbsp;소리보다는&nbsp;밈이나&nbsp;짤&nbsp;등으로&nbsp;대변될&nbsp;수&nbsp;있겠네요.&nbsp;* 본 프로젝트를 진행하면서 접한 Fred Moten의 저서 에서는 저자는 미국 피아니스트인 Charles Rosen의 말을 인용하는데, 음악적으로 불협화음은 반드시 해결되어야만 하는 소리이며, 불협화음과 협화음을 구분하는 것은 인간의 귀나 신경계가 아닌, 당시 시대가 정의한 지배적인 음악 양식에 따른 것이라고 합니다. 지영 본래 죽음에 대해 관심이 있다고 하였는데 이는 어떤 이유에서인지요? 죽음과 관련해서 진행했거나 계획 중인 다른 리서치나 프로젝트가 있나요? 제인 해결되지 못한 역사적 사건에 대한 관심 때문에 죽음을 조명하게 된 것인지, 죽음에 대한 관심 때문에 역사를 들여다보기 시작한 건지 순서는 잘 모르겠습니다. 삶과 죽음이라는 극단적인 상태를 나누는 경계가 늘 궁금하고, 죽음으로 인해 더는 이야기를 할 수 없는 사람들의 속마음이 궁금합니다. 현재 진행 중인 작업은 한국전쟁 기간 동안 일어난 민간인 학살에 관한 것입니다. 이름도 없이 시대로부터 망각되길 강요당한 희생자를 우리가 어떻게 기억할 수 있을까? 하는 고민에서 시작되었습니다. 2019년부터 리서치를 시작해서 지금은 작품 제작 단계에 있습니다. 운 좋게도 서울문화재단으로부터 리서치 기금을 지원받아 긴 호흡으로 폭넓은 연구를 할 수 있었습니다. 리서치 기간이 길었던 만큼, 해당 사건에 대한 경험의 부재와 사건 당사자와 창작자인 저 사이의 세대 간의 간극을 메우고, 개인적이지 않은 기억을 나의 기억으로 끌어오려는 노력을 했습니다. 결과물은 인터랙티브한 웹사이트로 제작이 되어, 기억문화의 동시대성에 대한 제 나름의 해석을 보여드리고자 합니다. 지영 그 외에 현재 진행 중이거나 계획하고 있는 일이 있는지요? 제인 개인적인 프로젝트 외에 여러 작가, 비평가들과 함께 글로써 교류하는 매체를 계획하고 있습니다. 유럽사회에서 생활을 하고, 활동을 하다 보니 비서구권 사회 구성원간의 연대가 더욱 필요함을 느꼈습니다. 비식민지화 혹은 탈식민지화와 같은 담론은 주로 과거의 가해자였던 서구 사회와 피해자였던 비서구 사회 간의 화해 혹은 화합을 중심으로 형성되는 경향을 보입니다. 그에 반해, 저마다 다른 피지배의 기억을 공유하는 비서구권 사회들 간의 연대는 현저히 부족합니다. 이렇듯, 당사자들 간의 대화를 넘어선 탈국가적 이해와 치유의 역할을 글이 해줄 수 있지 않을까 생각했습니다. 실제로 저에게도 한 사회와 집단을 가장 내밀하게 만날 수 있는 매체가 글이기 때문입니다. 현재 1인 출판사 등록을 진행하는 중인데, 매년 ‘비식민지화’ 라는 큰 범위 내에서 비서구권 출신의 작가, 비평가들이 글을 게재한 잡지 한 권과 단행본 한 권을 펴는 것이 목표입니다. 출판과 더불어 비평가 레지던시도 계획하고 있습니다. 아직은 둘 다 계획의 시작 단계라 올 한 해 동안 구체적인 운영방법을 고민하고 차근차근 실행해보려 합니다. https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JaneH_eng Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:12:39 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JaneH_eng 한국어 Interview with Jane Hwang&nbsp;(Artist) personal website︎︎︎ Face-to-face interview on 20. Dec. 2021 Email interview on 19. Jan. 2022 Interviewed by Jeeyoung Lee Translated by Jane Hwang <img width="3000" height="2002" width_o="3000" height_o="2002" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/cf041154f18c52b94d06402857c02d7ac5bffd47210383d5a34076c80679963c/CC_4.jpg" data-mid="134327439" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/cf041154f18c52b94d06402857c02d7ac5bffd47210383d5a34076c80679963c/CC_4.jpg" /> Cloudchoir for our Beloved (2020), Photo by Dongryoung Han Jeeyong Would you introduce yourself? Jane My name is Jane Hwang, and I am an artist based in Berlin and Seoul. In my practice, I work with time-based media to study the boundaries between history, the present, and the future from a narrative perspective. I am especially interested in interdisciplinary research exploring Korean history and the digitalization of commemorative culture. I am currently completing a master's program, “Art in Context” at the Berlin University of the Arts. Jeeyoung How did you start your project CloudChoir for our Beloved? What was your intention? Jane CloudChoir for our Beloved, 2020 is a collective project where a group of artists sing 'Marching for our Beloved' in different languages. The project actually started unintentionally, inspired by a moment. In Winter 2019, I shared the original sound file of 'Marching for our Beloved' with some multinational artists at a seminar. Although no historical background of the song was given (the song was recorded under the military regime's radar in Gwangju in 1982), listeners could assume the context of the tune and its urgency. Despite the fact that most listeners didn't speak Korean, some said that it reminded them of protest songs from their own history. We were immediately able to resonate with the music beyond words and culture, almost instinctively. It was this moment that prompted me to develop this project. Through CloudChoir for our Beloved, 2020, I aim to expand this observation to the act of group singing as a means to represent a solidarity among Asian artists that transcends language and region. The project was designed for collaboration from the beginning.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The project title obvious borrows from the song title ‘March for our Beloved.’ I added ‘CloudChoir’ to emphasize another major element: the recording and uploading of sound files from artists all over. The final project includes a video and 50 20-minute long cassette tapes,&nbsp;which pays homage to the recording and distribution history of the original song. Cassette tapes are unique because the listener is unsure of what to expect before pressing the play button, unlike modern digital formats. The presentation of the content itself was also important. Cassette tapes reveal its content linearly. Listening to music from a cassette requires more effort; a listener will need to spend time fast forwarding or rewinding to fully experience a song. I intended to provoke time laborious work when listening to the cassette tape, creating an experience that demands higher level of listening. <img width="2002" height="3000" width_o="2002" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/317dfacc2c6d928e20a4346868c8a50ec0a1ca41bd4a083ea6f645c77c2988b4/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-002.jpg" data-mid="134327443" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/317dfacc2c6d928e20a4346868c8a50ec0a1ca41bd4a083ea6f645c77c2988b4/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-002.jpg" /><img width="2002" height="3000" width_o="2002" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/15e7b70969791d8177fb96eafb32b7b2291b92ac15e42150b7f43d870a76f2dd/CC_1.jpg" data-mid="134327438" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/15e7b70969791d8177fb96eafb32b7b2291b92ac15e42150b7f43d870a76f2dd/CC_1.jpg" />Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020, Compact cassette, 20 mins, 50 edition1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD, sound 2020 Photo by Dongryoung Han Jeeyong Would you tell me more about your work process in detail? Jane First, I limited participants to people who can read or speak one of the Asian languages and who support freedom and democracy in Asian countries. I posted a call on Facebook, through group emails, and by word of mouth. Finally, I gathered nine artists who would be willing to spend their time and efforts on this project. After identifying my group, I made a website to share all the information about the song and translated versions of the lyrics in different languages with the artists. Artists were responsible for confirming the translated lyrics that I found online. Three artists required translations that I was unable to obtain, so they were asked to translate lyrics into their desired language. Even in the logistical stages, people and their solidarity were at the core foundation of this project.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Participating artists were asked to sing the song in their own safe space, record their performance and upload the file. They were welcome to stay anonymous if they wanted: using voice and face filters or recording audio-only. A young Indian artist, who translated the song into Telugu, felt unsafe uploading the materials, so her collaborating partner from Spain decided to shoot the footage and record the song alone. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; One Argentinian musician sent me an email saying that he found out about this project by chance and connected with it, but was disappointed he couldn't participate because didn't speak an Asian language. He asked me if he could join in, recording the song with his most confident language: music. He eventually sent me a video of himself playing a guitar arrangement of the song. An Asian-American artist bravely recorded a song in Cantonese with a trembling voice despite her non-fluent Cantonese skills. The final compilation video is 4 minutes and 45 seconds of minimally edited footage to maintain the original quality of the artists' recordings as much as possible. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I put together packages of cassette tapes and posters. For the cassettes, I attached the original audio files one after the other without editing and added narrations at the beginning and end. In the end, it was a 20-minute long experience. In terms of visuals, I wanted the packaging to look like that of an experimental independent label. So, I deliberately removed historical information about the project, which could possibly overwhelm viewers. Nevertheless, I tried to include some essential background explanations and old photos of Gwangju to the cassette tape sleeve. Still, my fellow artist in charge of the design insisted on leaving only one image of May 18th. Eventually, it was a clever decision to minimize the context to direct the listener to concentrate on the song's lyrics. In the end, 50 cassette tapes and 100 posters were produced. I sent each artist worldwide two copies of tapes and posters, hoping that they would further distribute one copy to whomever they wanted and keep one for themselves. All went to plan except for one envelope addressed to Buenos Aires that was lost during transit. Even then, after a new shipment, the product arrived safe in the artists' hands. <img width="1920" height="1080" width_o="1920" height_o="1080" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/7b9248490e8d8702eef708f68518568df09e566aa4f5c0d1527a9304dcb74f7d/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-003.png" data-mid="134327444" border="0" data-no-zoom alt="Video Still Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020 1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD" data-caption="Video Still Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020 1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/7b9248490e8d8702eef708f68518568df09e566aa4f5c0d1527a9304dcb74f7d/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-18-18-26-003.png" />Video Still, Cloudchoir for our Beloved, 2020 1-ch. video installation, 4:45, HD Jeeyong Were there any difficulties when working on this project? Jane The project still has some unanswered questions in terms of the participant diversity. According to the record, 'March for our Beloved' was also widely sung in Khmer, Burmese, and Thai, but these renditions are not included in this project. Through multiple Facebook posts and open calls, I attempted to recruit artists speaking these languages. In addition to this, I contacted dozens of voice-over artists on Fiverr, a platform that allows you to connect with and hire professionals for your project. Most of them showed interest in my request, so I shared details of the project and told them that they would remain anonymous. However, they all declined my proposition without clear reasoning. Some even said they were unwilling to participate in political matters even with compensation. In the moment, it was embarrassing, but I felt even more ashamed by my lack of action afterwards. I should have been more mindful about the current political landscape across Asia and employed a more sensitive approach when recruiting participants rather than simply relying on social media. In the process, I realized that it is not the individual artists' but the institutions' responsibility to promote such projects and recruit participants. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Contacting the institution and requesting cooperation was also challenging. I contacted an organization related to May 18th to ask for support. My initial idea was to pay an artist fee for those translated the song. They requested more details, so I sent them a project description and a sponsorship request. I have never heard from them ever since. Despite this, the project moved forward. Fortunately, the student organization within the Berlin University of the Arts was willing to support the material costs for the project. I believe that artistic discourses around May 18th is possible only when institutions support the production phase of each project before the exhibition phase. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Another difficulty I came across was the lack of archival material. On The May 18th Memorial Foundation's website, there is an independent Korean webpage for 'March for our Beloved.' However, their English website doesn't offer the same information. The same happens on the 5.18 Archives website- information asymmetry between the Korean and English webpages. 'March for our Beloved' was introduced and translated into several Asian languages and sung by the locals voluntarily. However, there wasn't any official record published, so I had to rely on Internet research, which may be inaccurate. One could say that this restriction opened doors for creativity. Jeeyong How would you like to develop this project further? What kind of support would you require? Jane I would build upon the aforementioned issues and further develop this project. It will be an interesting archive if more languages are added to the second or the third albums. Also, Asia has a myriad of ancient and extinct languages. 'March for our Beloved' could be a medium for preserving endangered Asian languages. Just as the lyric of 'March for our Beloved' was translated to reflect the contemporary issues of different countries through time, the song can always be revised according to contemporary contexts and events. For that, institutional support should be the basis beyond the individual artist's approach. In addition to recruiting participants, we should create a safe space for them to express themselves freely. Participants' effort for translations, revision, and rewriting should also be compensated. If researchers could document and expand the archives through the process, it would allow the representativeness and influence of the song to flourish, which will then continually produce a new context and sustain its longevity over time. Jeeyong Do you have any other May 18th-related projects in your mind? Jane If I were to further develop this theme, I would continue researching resistance noises. For example, we can hear songs, shouting or slogans, and unpleasant sounds in the student movement- ranting and noises. In this case, then, sometimes rather than a well-made piece of music, a bursting shout or an incomprehensible cry of rage could represent the era. Considering this, it would be an exciting project to look into historical patterns in noises of resistance movements in different cultures- noises that have not been officially recorded such as music or slogans, i.e., dissonances that must be resolved.* On another note, the resistance of the current young generation could be represented by memes or gifs rather than sounds.&nbsp;* I came across Fred Moten's book &lt;Black and Blur&gt; while developing this project, and here, Moten quoted Charles Rosen, an American pianist, when referring to dissonance. Rosen argues that dissonance is any musical sound that must be resolved, and it is not the human ear or nervous system that decides what dissonance is because consonance is determined at a given historical moment by the prevailing musical style. Jeeyong Death has been your primary interest, and why is that? Could you introduce other ongoing or planned projects about this theme? Jane The underlying theme of my work is death and unresolved historical events. It is hard to say which comes first or even how to accurately determine a causal relationship between them. The boundary between two extremes, life and death, always interests me. What might be considered dead, like someone who can no longer talk is always, for me, a site of wonder and curiosity. I am currently working on a project about the civilian massacre during the Korean War in South Korea. This project was born from pondering how we can remember anonymous victims who were forced to be forgotten. I started the research in 2019, and it is now in production. Luckily, the research part of this project is funded by the Seoul Foundation for Arts and Culture, which allowed me to invest a reasonable amount of time and effort into the research. During this process, I tried to suffuse my contemporary experience with the historical experience itself—to fill a gap between victims and a narrator, myself— seeking to integrate these ghostly memories into my own. The project will be realised as an interactive website as my own interpretation of the contemporaneity of commemorative culture. Jeeyoung Please tell me more about other projects that you are working on. Jane Besides these projects, I am envisioning a media where artists and art critics interact in writing. Multiple years of living in Europe taught me the necessity of solidarity among non-Western individuals. Decolonization discourses tend to be initiated mainly around reconciliation between the Western society, the perpetrator, and the non-Western society, the victim of colonialism. In contrast, solidarity among non-Western societies, each sharing memories of oppression, seems remarkably lacking. So, I thought that writing could intermediate transnational understandings and heal these oppressed societies. In fact, for me, text is the medium through which I can encounter a community most intimately. My registration as an individual publisher is currently in the process of being approved. My goal is to publish one magazine and one book each year in which artists and critics from non-Western countries introduce articles within the theme of 'decolonization.' In addition to publishing, a writer-in-residence program is also in the works. Both are still in the early stages, and I hope to develop a detailed approach this year. &nbsp; https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/PabloSL_kor Tue, 22 Feb 2022 10:14:44 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/PabloSL_kor English &nbsp; 인터뷰 파블로 산타카나 로페즈 (시각 디자이너,&nbsp;문화&nbsp;연구자,&nbsp;ZK/U&nbsp;펠로우) 개인 홈페이지︎︎︎ 2022년 1월 9일 이메일 인터뷰&nbsp; 인터뷰 이지영 번역 박설희 영문 교정(주)브릿센트 <img width="3000" height="2000" width_o="3000" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/8d39abb630b63c8bf92ebcb9746e3b20e194231b0d1380c971a517588e24f47e/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-09-001.jpg" data-mid="134338717" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/8d39abb630b63c8bf92ebcb9746e3b20e194231b0d1380c971a517588e24f47e/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-09-001.jpg" /> IPER, 2022 ©ZK/U Berlin, Pablo Santacana Lopez 지영 본인에 대한 간략한 소개를 부탁합니다. 파블로 제 이름은 파블로 산타카나Pablo Santacana입니다. 스페인 사람이며, 마드리드와 베를린을 오가며 활동하는 시각 디자이너이자 문화 연구가입니다. 저는 모든 시각적 묘사의 뒷면에 자리하고 있는 힘의 구조를 특별한 시각을 통해 문제화 하는 데 관심이 있습니다. 그러한 시각적 묘사는 우리의 집단적 기억과 세계관을 빚어내기 때문이죠. 현재 저는 바이마르 바우하우스 대학교Bauhaus University Weimar의 리서치 훈련 그룹인 “정체성과 문화유산Identity and Heritage”에서 현재 갈등에 대한 급진적 부정성을 수행하는 공간으로써의 역사적 재연에 관한 논문을 쓰고 있습니다. 학교에서 하는 작업과 더불어, 저는 콜렉티브 Co-Re︎︎︎의 일원으로 Haus der Statistik에서 프로젝트 공간을 운영하고 있습니다. 마드리드에서는 친구인 마르타 무뇨스Marta Muñoz와 함께 휴모 에스뚜디오Humo Estudio라는 그래픽 디자인 스튜디오를 운영 중입니다. 마르타와 함께 벤데도레스 데 휴모Vendedores de Humo라는 연구 및 공동체 지향 예술가 콜렉티브를 운영하고 있습니다. 지영 당신의 작업을 설명할 때 사용하는 “수행적 기념물Performative Monument”이라는 용어가 어떤 것을 의미하는지 궁금합니다. 이와 관련해서 본인에게 의미있는 작업이 있다면 그 작업에 대해 이야기해 주시겠어요? 그리고 이러한 작업을 시작하게 된 계기와 의도가 궁금합니다. 파블로 수행적 기념물에 대한 내 관심은 무형의 절차화된 것들이 과거와 관련된 의미를 내포하는 사물로서 인정을 받는 방식을 재정의하고자 하는 필요에서 생겼습니다. 이는 유네스코UNESCO나 다른 주요 기관으로부터 인정받은 무형 유산이라고 정의된 것들을 포함합니다. 스페인의 전통적인 가정 출신인 저는, 문제화되거나 거의 의문이 제기되지 않는 제의적 의례나 의식을 계속해서 경험했고, 동시에 그 의식들이 의미를 구성하고 참여를 이끌어내는 힘을 이해할 수 있었습니다. 만일 우리가 그러한 의식을 통해 스스로에게 힘을 주고, 그 의식을 사회적 변화를 이끌어내는 방식으로 사용한다면 어떨까요? 저의 이 관심사는 두 가지 주요한 사실과 연결되면서 더 강해졌습니다. 첫 번째는, 이러한 의례나 의식의 기원에 대한 지적 재산권이 자신들에게 있음을 주장한 우익 운동의 부상이었습니다. 이들은 이 의례나 의식을 과거를 재신화화하는데 이용하여 이방인 혐오와 민족주의를 정당화하고자 했습니다. 두 번째는, 문화를 관광지화하는 것과 집단 기억을 불쾌한 부분을 제거해버린 상품으로 탈바꿈시키는 행태였습니다. 이에 재연reenactment과 공공 활동을 조직했던 개인적인 경험이 더해져, 저는 이러한 모든 문제 의식을 불러일으키기 (또한, 이의를 제기하기) 위한 방식으로 역사적 재연이라는 형식을 선택하기로 결심했습니다. 이 선택은 제레미 델러Jeremy Deller라는 예술가가 만든 ‘오그레브 전투The Battle of Orgreave’에서 영향을 받았으며, 이 작품은 저의 주요한 레퍼런스입니다. 델러는 마가렛 대처Margaret Thatcher가 이끄는 자유당 내각의 조치에 대항해 강행한 1984년의 대규모 파업에 발생한 광부들과 영국 정부 간의 싸움을 재연했습니다. 2001년에 재연된 그 작품에서, 예전의 파업에 동참했던 광부들이 그 싸움을 재연했고 경찰관의 역할도 맡았습니다. 그 재연 과정의 기록은 BBC가 방송했던 원래의 사건 기록이 편향되었다는 것을 보여주는 증거가 되었습니다. 과거에 BBC는 그 억압을 정당화할 목적으로 악의적으로 편집하여 광부들이 그 싸움을 시작한것처럼 교묘하게 묘사하였습니다. <img width="2000" height="3000" width_o="2000" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/1f451fc0bf1e0ba49ac1f8a8c503f568a6e5bff2b26570ef60105e27bcced03b/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-22-01-51-22.jpg" data-mid="134338642" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/1f451fc0bf1e0ba49ac1f8a8c503f568a6e5bff2b26570ef60105e27bcced03b/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-22-01-51-22.jpg" />Fiestas de la Melonera, Madrid, 2017 © Galerna fotoVendedores de Humo 지영 보통 작업을 어떻게 진행하는지 궁금합니다. 파블로 저는 항상 과정이나 리서치에 바탕을 두고 작업합니다. 이것은 프로젝트에서 가장 중요한 것은 마지막 결과물이 아니라 해당 작업을 하는 과정에서 파생된 모든 발견이 가장 중요하다는 의미입니다. 우리는 이런 발견들을 항상 기록하려고 노력합니다. 이 기록물은 프로젝트의 중요한 부분이며, 책, 영화 설치 작품과 같은 형태로 만들어집니다. <img width="3000" height="2008" width_o="3000" height_o="2008" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/b2c9940c67487aec23b257dc4691f32d78cfcfa1fbefa5f175a77b35588caf00/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-10-003.png" data-mid="134338718" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/b2c9940c67487aec23b257dc4691f32d78cfcfa1fbefa5f175a77b35588caf00/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-10-003.png" />Esfera, piedra, poligono, 2021 Vendedores de HumoIPER, 2022, © ZK/U Berlin, Pablo Santacana Lopez 지영 기념비memorial에 대해 관심을 가지고 있다고 하였는데 어떤 부분에 주목하는지요? 독일과 스페인에서 활동하고 있는데 당신이 차이를 가지고 주목하는 점이 있다면 무엇입니까? 파블로 역사적 재연에 관한 연구에서 저는 한 테마 파크에 주목하고 있습니다. 그것은 헤게모니를 장악한 스페인의 과거와 닮아 있고 그것을 기념하고 있기 때문에 저는 그것을 기념물이라고 생각합니다. 지방 당국은 그것을 기념물로 간주하지 않지만, 그 테마 파크는 단순화되고 인위적으로 가공된 구경거리가 되어 특정 역사적 입장을 강화하고 있습니다. 스페인의 경우, 이 테마 파크의 성공은 특히 위험하게도 편파적 발언 및 보수 민족주의의 등장과 연결되어 있습니다. 국가 사회 주의의 실패 이후 역사적 수정주의의 과정을 거쳐야 했던 독일과 비교해 보면, 스페인은 이제서야 막 파시즘과 프랑키즘으로부터 벗어나려 조금씩 노력하는 단계에 있습니다. 또한, 최근의 갈등을 다루는 방식마저도 합의되지 못했는데, 식민주의는 말할 것도 없죠. 지영 혹시 광주에 온다면 5·18과 관련하여 시도해보고 싶은 프로젝트가 있는지요? 현재 관심사에 기반하여 어떤 것에 관심을 가지고 리서치하게 될 것 같은지 궁급합니다. 파블로 그 사건이 대중매체나 대중문화, 제도적인 담론, 기억 등에서 대중들에게 어떻게 표현되는지 연구하는 것이 재미있을 것 같습니다. 누가 무엇을 이야기하는가? 어떻게, 그리고 중요하게는, 무엇에 관심이 가는가? 기억이라는 것은 우리가 실제로 그것을 기억하는 순간보다 우리가 그것을 기억하는 방식과 항상 더 연관되어 있습니다. 따라서 왜 그런 사건이 지금 언급되어야 하는지 그 이유를 조사해보는 것이 흥미로울 것 같습니다. 또한 대중과 정부가 서로 대립하는 입장에 있다면 이야기들이 사라져버린 그 틈을 찾아 대중과 정부가 다시 소통하도록 제자리에 되돌려 놓는 작업이 흥미로울 것 같아요. 그곳에 실제로 가서 작업하는 상상을 하니 즐겁습니다. 곧 그곳에서 할 수 있는 프로젝트가 생기길 바랍니다! 지영 현재 진행 중이거나 계획하고 있는 일이 있는지요? 파블로 테마 파크와 연관된 연구의 일부로, 저는 퓌뒤푸(Puy du Fou: 프랑스에 있는 테마파크로, 옛날 모습을 재현한 곳)에 대해 다루고 있습니다. 그곳에 대한 논문을 쓰고 올해 그곳을 다시 방문하여 인터뷰를 할 것 같습니다. 이 장소를 잘 모르는 분들께, 웹사이트︎︎︎를 꼭 (비판적인 시각으로) 방문해보라고 강력하게 추천하고 싶습니다. 당신이 관심 있을 것 같은 웹사이트를 첨부합니다. 바우하우스 대학교 웹사이트에 소개된 나의 리서치︎︎︎&nbsp; 연구를 위해 만든 나의 웹사이트︎︎︎ 제레미 델러의 ‘오그레브 전투’ Youtube 링크︎︎︎ &nbsp; https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/PabloSL_eng Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:51:56 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/PabloSL_eng 한국어 Interview with Pablo Santacana López (Visual Designer, Cultural Researcher, and&nbsp;ZK/U Fellow) personal website︎︎︎ Email interview on 9. Jan. 2022 Interviewed by Jeeyoung Lee Translated by Seolhee Park ProofreadingBritcent Ltd <img width="3000" height="2000" width_o="3000" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/8d39abb630b63c8bf92ebcb9746e3b20e194231b0d1380c971a517588e24f47e/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-09-001.jpg" data-mid="134336837" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/8d39abb630b63c8bf92ebcb9746e3b20e194231b0d1380c971a517588e24f47e/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-09-001.jpg" />IPER, 2022 ©ZK/U Berlin, Pablo Santacana Lopez Jeeyoung Please tell me about yourself. Pablo My name is Pablo Santacana. I am a Spanish visual designer and cultural researcher based in Madrid and Berlin. I am interested in problematizing the power structures behind every form of representation, with special focus on the ways such representation mold our collective memories and our worldviews. I am currently writing my dissertation at the Research Training Group “Identity and Heritage” at the Bauhaus University, Weimar on the topic of historical reenactments as performative spaces of radical negativity towards present conflicts. In parallel to my academic work, I am part of the collective Co-Re (Ig: contextual_research) with whom I manage a project space at Haus der Statistik. In Madrid, together with my friend Martra Muñoz, I also run a graphic design studio called Humo Estudio. With Marta, I also run a research- and community-oriented artistic collective called Vendedores de Humo. Jeeyoung Can you tell me what the term “Performative Monument” means, which you use to explain your practice? If you have a meaningful project concerning this form of practice, please tell me about the project. Also, I would like to know what made you start this kind of project and the intention behind it.
 Pablo My interest in performative monuments developed from a need to redefine the ways in which the intangible and the processual are validated as holders of meaning related to the past, besides what has been defined as intangible heritage by UNESCO and other key institutions.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Coming from a traditional family from Spain, I have been continuously in contact with ritualities and ceremonies that were rarely problematized or questioned, and at the same time I understood the power such events hold in constructing meaning and producing engagement. What would happen if we empower ourselves in such ceremonies and use them as tools for social change? This specific interest became stronger, in relation to two main facts. The first was the rise of right-wing movements who claimed the intellectual property of these gatherings, using them to remythify the past to justify xenophobia and nationalism. Second, the touristification of culture and the transformation of collective memory into a sanitized commodity. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;With this setup, and after some personal experience organizing reenactments and public activities, I decided to focus on the format of historical reenactments as a way to channel (and challenge) all these issues. The choice of topic was very much influenced by my main reference, The Battle of Orgreave by artist Jeremy Deller. Deller reenacted a fight between miners and the British police during a massive strike in 1984 to protest against the measures taken by the liberal government of Margaret Thatcher. In the reenactment, which happened on 2001, miners who had participated in the original event reenacted the fight, also playing the policemen, and the documentation of the reenactment served to counter the proven&nbsp;bias in the documentation of the original event by the BBC, where distorted editing showed the miners as starters of the fight as a way to justify their repression. <img width="2000" height="3000" width_o="2000" height_o="3000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/1f451fc0bf1e0ba49ac1f8a8c503f568a6e5bff2b26570ef60105e27bcced03b/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-22-01-51-22.jpg" data-mid="134336826" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/1f451fc0bf1e0ba49ac1f8a8c503f568a6e5bff2b26570ef60105e27bcced03b/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-22-01-51-22.jpg" /> Fiestas de la Melonera, Madrid, 2017 © Galerna fotoVendedores de Humo Jeeyoung What could be the usual process of your project? Pablo I always work in a process-oriented and research-based way, which means that the most important part of the project is not the final result, but all the findings that happen in the process, which we (I speak with the plural as I never work alone) always try to document. Documentation is a key part of the project, and it sometimes comes in the form of a book, a film, or an installation. <img width="3000" height="2008" width_o="3000" height_o="2008" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/b2c9940c67487aec23b257dc4691f32d78cfcfa1fbefa5f175a77b35588caf00/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-10-003.png" data-mid="134336824" border="0" data-no-zoom src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/b2c9940c67487aec23b257dc4691f32d78cfcfa1fbefa5f175a77b35588caf00/KakaoTalk_Photo_2022-02-15-20-43-10-003.png" /> Esfera, piedra, poligono, 2021 Vendedores de Humo IPER, 2022, © ZK/U Berlin, Pablo Santacana Lopez Jeeyoung You are known to have an interest in memorials. What are you focusing on with that? In that you are currently working in Germany and Spain, what do you focus on differently between memorials in the two countries? Pablo On my present research on historical reenactments, I am now focusing on a theme park that celebrates and resembles the hegemonic&nbsp;narration&nbsp;of the Spanish past, which therefore I consider to be memorial work. It is not considered&nbsp;or regarded by local authorities as a memorial per se, but the theme park is gaining agency on validating specific historical narrations, which are clearly simplified and rendered as spectacle. In the case of Spain, the success of this theme park is especially dangerous, linked to the rise of hate speech and conservative nationalism. In comparison with Germany, which needed to go through a process of historical revisionism after the defeat of National Socialism, Spain has only gradually tried to distance itself from fascism and Francoism, and there is no common agreement on how to deal with even recent conflicts, to say nothing of colonialism. Jeeyoung Imagine that you come to Gwangju. Is there any project that you would like to try regarding May 18? What would you research based on your current interests? Pablo For me it would be interesting to focus on the public representation of the event, either in mass media or popular culture, as well as in institutional discourses and memories. Who is telling what? How, and most importantly, on which interests? Remembering has always more to do with the moment in which we remember rather than on the moment we are remembering, so research on the reasons why such an event needs to be addressed nowadays could be very interesting. Also, related to the opposition between popular culture and institutional discourse, it could be interesting to find the gaps into which the missing narrations could be put into circulation. I would love to stop imagining and actually go there! Hopefully I find some projects there soon! Jeeyoung Is there any ongoing project or anything that you are planning to do at the moment? Pablo As part of my research on the theme park I mentioned Puy du Fou. I am planning to write a paper on it and visit it again this year, probably also doing some interviews. For everyone who is not familiar with the place, I strongly recommend having a (critical) look on their website︎︎︎ &nbsp; I give you also some links in case it is of interest to you: My research at Bauhaus university︎︎︎My website about the research︎︎︎ Jeremy Deller's Battle of Orgreave︎︎︎ https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JohannaSR_kor Sat, 26 Feb 2022 14:45:15 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JohannaSR_kor English 인터뷰 요한나 소피 리히터 (커뮤니티 매니저, ZK/U 펠로우: Catalystas Collective︎︎︎) 2022년 1월 24일 이메일 인터뷰인터뷰이지영 번역박설희 2022년 1월 6일에 요한나에게 보낸 이메일 요한나에게, 당신이 잘 지내고 있길 바랍니다 :) 저는 당신이 어떻게 홀로코스트에 관한 교육을 받았는지 궁금합니다. 혹시 그에 관해 저에게 이야기를 해줄 수 있을까요? &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;한국에서는 1980년에 발생한 광주의 5·18민중항쟁 당시 독재정권의 시민학살과 관련된 교육이 이제 전국의 학교에서 이루어지기 시작했어요. 저는 학교와 관계되어 있지 않아서 학생들이 어떻게 배우고 있는지 잘 모르지만, 그 역사에 관해 간략하게 배운다고만 들었습니다. 이전에는 다른 도시에서 5·18의 현실에 대해 잘 알 수 없었기도 했고, 광주 외에는 학교에서 5·18에 관한 교육이 이루어지지 못했던 것 같아요. 많은 사람들이 5·18에 대해 추모장소나 기념관의 전시를 보고 배워야 했죠. 그런데 문제는 사진자료와 문서기록 위주의 전달방식에만 의존하다 보니 입체적인 교육이 이루어지지 않았던 거예요. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 게다가 아직도 책임자 처벌이 이루어지지 않았고, 근래까지도 사건의 진상규명이 제대로 되지 않았었어요. 항쟁을 그저 폭동으로 알고 있는 사람도 많았기에, 전반적인 분위기가 매우 비장하고 원통할 수밖에 없었죠. 그렇다보니 많은 사람들이 기념공간에서 일그러진 시체의 사진을 보고 5·18을 마주치게 되는 것을 기피하게 되었다는 이야기도 이곳저곳에서 들을 수 있습니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5·18이 올해 42주년이 되었으니, 홀로코스트에 비하면 굉장히 가까운 과거의 사건이지요. 제가 보기에 독일의 홀로코스트 교육은 이미 세대 별로 차이가 있을 것 같습니다. 현재 광주에는 5·18에 관한 새로운 교육 방식을 고민하는 초등학교 선생님들이 있습니다. 그래서 당신이 홀로코스트와 관련해서 어떤 교육을 받았는지 알려준다면, 교사들을 포함한 많은 사람들이 흥미롭게 읽을 것 같아요. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 덧붙여 제가 베를린에 있을 때, 학살당한 유대인뿐만 아니라 동독에서 서독으로 탈주를 시도하다 사망한 사람 등, 죽은 사람들에 대한 추모와 기념이 일상에 많이 침투해 있는 것처럼 보였어요. 이것에 대해서 당신이 어떻게 느끼는지도 궁금합니다. 그럼 시작해볼까요? 지영 당신의 이름과 나이, 국적, 현재 거주지, 하고 있는 일, 그리고 관심사에 대해 알려주세요. 요한나 제 이름은 요한나Johanna입니다. 현재 서른 살이고 독일 작센 주의 켐니츠Chemnitz에서 거주하며 작업하고 있어요. 지금은 켐니츠의 작은 마을에서 한 커뮤니티의 매니저로 일하고 있습니다. 공동체와 시민들에게 힘을 부여하고 활발하게 만드는 데 가장 큰 관심이 있습니다. 지영 언제 처음 홀로코스트에 대한 교육을 받았습니까? 몇 살이었나요? 요한나 제가 홀로코스트 또는 쇼아&nbsp;Shoah: 히브리어로 홀로코스트를 가리키는 말에 대해 처음으로 더 알게 된 것은 학교에서였습니다. 지금 생각해보니 좀더 기억이 생생했던 때는 고등학교 시절, 그러니까 11살이나 12살 정도였던 것 같습니다. 지영 어떤 과목에서 홀로코스트를 가르쳤나요? 요한나 학교에서 그 주제는 역사 시간에 다루었습니다. 수 년 간 지속적으로 배웠던 주제였어요. 저희의 선생님들은 때때로 바뀌었지만, 두 선생님이 그 주제를 굉장히 깊게 다루었던 게 기억나요. 학교 수업에서는 홀로코스트를 제2차 세계 대전 위주의 틀 안에서 가르쳤습니다. 지금 돌이켜보면, 다른 관점이나 심지어 유대인 공동체의 관점도 아닌, 순전히 독일인의 관점에서 진행된 수업이었던 것 같아요. 지영 수업에서 홀로코스트에 대해 어떤 방식으로 배웠는지 알려줄 수 있나요? 요한나 안타깝게도 학교에서 역사의 산 증인을 만나는 기회&nbsp;Zeitzeugengespräch는 없었고, 수용소나 기념관에 방문한 적도 없습니다. 하지만 영화 하나가 생생하게 기억납니다. 제목은 “밤과 안개&nbsp;Night and Fog, 1956”로, 나치 정권 하의 수용소와 홀로코스트를 다룬 프랑스 다큐멘터리예요. 우리는 7학년인가 8학년 즈음 역사 수업 시간에 그 영화를 봤어요. 끔찍하고 무서운 영화였습니다. 물론 그 전에 수용소나 언제 무슨 일이 생겼는지에 대해 배웠지만, 주로 1933년과 1945년에 사이에 일어난 일에 초점이 맞추어져 있었습니다. 1945년 이후의 일은 잘 배우지 못했죠. 학교에서는 유대인 공동체의 관점이나, 유명한 ‘아이히만Eichmann’ 재판에 대해 토론을 한 적도 없습니다. 지영 독일 도시의 이곳저곳에는 홀로코스트 기념비나 박물관이 있습니다. 그것을 볼 때 어떤 기분이나 생각이 드는지요? 요한나 독일 내 많은 도시에 슈톨퍼슈타인*︎︎︎이라 불리는 것을 볼 수 있습니다. 이 작업은 예술가 귄터 뎀니히Gunter Demnig의 프로젝트예요. 민족사회주의 (나치)의 시대에 박해받고, 살해되고, 추방되거나 자살하도록 몰린 희생자들을 기억하기 위해, 희생자들의 작은 명판을 땅에 새겨 두는 작업이지요. 켐니츠나 다른 도시를 걷다 보면 이 슈톨퍼슈타인이 보이는데, 그때마다 생각에 잠기게 됩니다. 이러한 명판은 과거를 더욱더 현실로 만들어준다는 점에서 제게 매우 중요합니다. 이런 일이 다시는 일어나지 않도록 노력해야 한다는 사실을 일깨워주는 것이지요. *Stolpersteine: 나치 시절 학살된 사람들이 거주했던 집 앞 보도에 길에 박힌 돌멩이를 닮은 작은 동판에 희생자의 이름, 출생연도, 추방일, 사망일과 장소 등을 새겨 놓은 것 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1938년 11월 9일에 ‘수정의 밤Reichspogromnacht’이라는 사건이 일어났습니다. 나치 돌격대와 일부 독일인들이 유대인 상점, 회당, 다른 기관 등에 불을 지른 사건이예요. 요즘 켐니츠에서는 11월 9일에 지역의 의식 있는 사람들이 ‘촛불 걷기Lichterweg’라는 모임을 만들어, 그 끔찍한 날을 기억하고 살해된 사람들을 추모하기 위해 슈톨퍼슈타인 옆에 작은 초를 밝힙니다. 저는 이 작은 행사가 어떤 일이 있었는지를 집단으로 기억하는 적극적인 방식이라고 생각해요. 학교를 다닐 때 이렇게 기억과 우리의 역사를 다루는 풍부한 기회가 전혀 없었다는 점이 유감스러울 뿐입니다. https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JohannaSR_eng Sat, 26 Feb 2022 15:02:42 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/JohannaSR_eng 한국어 Interview with Johanna Sophie Richter (Community Manager and ZK/U Fellow as Catalystas Collective︎︎︎) Email interview on 24. Jan. 2022 Interviewed by Jeeyoung Lee Translated by Seolhee Park Email to Johanna on 6. Jan. 2021Dear Johanna, Hope you are doing great :) I’d like to know how you learned about the Holocaust in school. Could you please tell me about it?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In Korea, the May 18th People’s Uprising in Gwangju and the massacre of innocent people at the hands of dictatorship in 1980 are just starting to be taught in schools nationwide. I don’t know the way students are taught now, but I’ve heard they learn about the history briefly. In the past, people in other cities did not acknowledge the reality of May 18, so schools even seem not to teach May 18 but only those in Gwangju. Many people had to learn about May 18 through exhibitions in memorial sites and in commemoration museums. But the problem is that they only saw some photos and documents but not the full picture of the uprising. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;In addition, no person in charge of the crime was punished, and the truth about alleged massacres was not revealed until a short while ago. A significant number of people thought the uprising was just a riot, so the sentiment around it was very grim and bitter. That is why you can still hear that some people started avoiding encountering of May 18 because of the photos of crushed dead bodies in memorials.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;This year marks the 42nd anniversary of May 18, and so it is a piece of history that is much more recent than the Holocaust. Thus, I believe that Holocaust education is already different among different generations in Germany. Now in Gwangju, there are some elementary school teachers who are trying to come up with a new approach to teaching about May 18, so if you tell me what and how you learned about the Holocaust, I think a lot of people, including school teachers, will be interested in reading your answer.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Also, when I was in Berlin, I saw a lot of memorials for the dead, such as Jewish people murdered in the Holocaust or people from East Germany who died while escaping to West Germany. I wonder what you feel or think about it. Shall we get started? Jeeyoung Tell me about your name, age, nationality, current dwelling, what you do, and what you are interested in. Johanna My name is Johanna. I'm 30 years old and I'm currently living and working in Chemnitz (Germany, Saxony). Currently I'm working as a community manager in a small neighbourhood in Chemnitz. For me the most interesting is to empower and activate the community/citizens. Jeeyoung When did you first have an education about Holocaust? How old were you? Johanna The first time I learned more about the Holocaust or Shoah was at school. Or at least now that I think about it the most vivid memory is in high school at the age of 11 or 12 years. Jeeyoung Which subject do you think teaches Holocaust? Johanna At school the topic was addressed in the history class. It was also a topic, which has been addressed repeatedly over the years. Our teachers sometimes changed but I remember two teachers who addressed the topic very intensively. The subject at school was framed and addressed around the Second World War. Looking at it from today, I would say it was addressed from a German perspective not really looking at it from different points of view or at least from the perspective of the Jewish community. Jeeyoung Can you tell me how you learned about Holocaust in class? Johanna Unfortunately we never had an eyewitness talk (Zeitzeugengespräch) and within school we had even never visited a concentration camp or a memorial. But one movie I remember quite vivid: "Night and Fog (1956)” a French film, is a documentary about the German concentration camps and the Holocaust during the Nazi regime. We watched it during history class in the 7th or 8th grade. It was a horrifying and frightening movie. Of course we also learned about concentration camps, what happened at what time, but it was also mainly about the time between 1933 and 1945. For example, everything after 1945 we did not really address. Especially the perspective of the Jewish community or the famous ‘Eichmann’ process we never discussed at school. Jeeyoung There are many Holocaust memorials and museums here and there in German cities. What do you feel or think about when you see them? Johanna In a lot of German cities there are the so-called Stolpersteine︎︎︎. It is a project of the artist Gunter Demnig. With small memorial plaques laid in the ground the fate of people who were persecuted, murdered, deported, expelled or driven to suicide during the National Socialist (Nazi) era are remembered. When I walk through Chemnitz or any other city it makes me thoughtful when I see those Stolpersteine. To me those signs are very important, because they make the past more present. It reminds you to take care that this does not happen again.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; On the 9th of November 1938 the ‘Reichsprogrammnacht’ organized thugs set fire to Jewish stores, houses of worship and other institutions. Nowadays in Chemnitz on the 9th of November local initiatives organize the ‘Lichterweg (light-walk)’ and put little candles next to the Stolpersteine to remember the terror during that night and to the people who were killed. I think this is a lived and active way of collectively remembering, what happened. Unfortunately at school I had never learned about that active way of remembering and dealing with our history. https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/AnitaR_kor Sat, 26 Feb 2022 12:53:58 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/AnitaR_kor English&nbsp; | &nbsp;Deutsche 인터뷰 아니타 린드 (ZK/U 레지던시 코디네이터) 2021년 12월 22일 비대면 인터뷰&nbsp;인터뷰이지영, 오주희 독일어 통번역 및&nbsp;전사이지은 영문 번역(주)브릿센트 *이 인터뷰는 한국어-독어 통역으로 진행되었으며, 리서처들의 질문을 전달하는 과정에 통역자의 견해도 반영되었기에 질문자를 따로 표기하지 않음. 또한, 인터뷰 녹음 파일의 독일어를 전사하여 한국어로 번역 후 영어로 번역하는 작업을 거쳤음. 안녕하세요. 무엇을 공부했고 어떤 것에 관심을 가지고 계신지 간단하게 자기소개를 부탁드립니다. 아니타 저는 31살이고, 베를린에서 산 지 2년이 되었어요. 그 전에는 스웨덴에 교테부르크라는 도시에서 글로벌스터디라는 석사과정을 했습니다. 글로벌스터디는 사회과학 분야에 생긴 새로운 학업과정이예요. 다양한 시각들이 발생하는 세계화에 대해 연구하는 과정으로 세계화가 사회, 고용관계, 자연환경 혹은 성별테마에 끼치는 영향에 대해 공부했습니다. 교테부르크에서의 석사과정 이전에는 독일에 하이델베르크에서 중국학 석사과정을 했어요. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 저는 어머니가 대만 분이셔서 만다린어를 할줄 압니다. 그리고 아버지가 독일 분이시라 10살부터 독일에서 살았어요. 그래서 동아시아, 특히 대만과 중국의 정치, 사회문제에 관심이 많습니다. 한국에도 관심이 있어요. 학업과정 중 남녀평등에 관해 많은 연구를 했기 때문에 대만의 성차별에 관심이 많습니다. 또한 정치나 변화 혹은 유럽과 다른 국가들 사이에서의 문화적인 교류 등과 같은 사회적인 테마에도 특히 관심이 많아요. 현재 ZK/U에서 일하고 계신거죠? 아니타 네, 지금 ZK/U에서 레지던시 협력자로 일하고 있어요. 레지던시를 운영하는데 있어 스튜디오 예약을 돕는다던가 단체저녁식사같은 이벤트를 진행하는 일을 돕고 있지요. 미국에서도 공부하셨나요? 아니타 아니요, 미국에서 공부한 적은 없고 중국 광저우에 미국인학교를 10살까지 다녔어요. 그곳에서 영어를 배웠습니다. 그럼 3가지 언어를 하시는 거네요? 아니타 네, 10살에 독일에 와서는 김나지움*에 갔습니다. 그 이후로는 독일에서 살면서 독일의 대학입학자격시험Abitur을 보고 석사과정을 마쳤습니다.&nbsp;*gymnasium: 독일의 학교시스템으로 초, 중, 고가 합쳐진 형태 슈톨퍼슈타인의 기념비적 성격에 대한 질문을 하겠습니다. 그것은 바닥에 설치되어 있어서 사람들이 모르고 지나치기도 합니다. 하지만 많은 사람이 그것의 존재에 대해 알고 있고, 거기에는 그곳에 살았지만 어딘가에서 죽임을 당한 사람의 이름이 쓰여져 있습니다. 이 슈톨퍼슈타인이 있는 건물의 거주자들은 한편으로는 매일 죽음을 마주하게 되는 것입니다. 그래서 우리는 슈톨퍼슈타인이 있는 건물에 사는 사람들이 그것에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지, 어떤 감정을 느끼는지 궁금합니다. 아니타씨는 슈톨퍼슈타인에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지, 거주자들의 마음은 어떨것 같은지 궁금합니다. 아니타 먼저 슈톨퍼슈타인에 대한 제 생각을 말할게요. 그것에 대해서는 정말 다양한 의견이 존재하고 유대인 후손들의 생각도 다르며 그것을 지지하는 자들도 많다는 것을 알고 있습니다. 저 역시 슈톨퍼슈타인의 현재 형식을 지지합니다. 제가 슈톨퍼슈타인에 대해 특별히 좋다고 생각하는 부분은 평범한 일상 속에서 역사를 기념할 수 있다는 점이예요. 예를 들어, 친구를 기다리다가 우연히 슈톨퍼슈타인을 보게 되면 ´아 여기서 또 한 명의 유대인이 어딘가로 끌려갔구나.´ 이런 생각이 스쳐지나가 잠시나마 추모하게 됩니다. 아주 평범한 저의 일상 속에서 나치시대에 자신의 아름답던 삶을 빼앗긴 어느 유대인을 잠시라도 기억하게 되는 것이죠. 슈톨퍼슈타인이 바닥에 설치되어 있어 유대인을 존중하지 못한다는 비판에는 어느정도 동의하지만, 저는 그래도 일상 속에 자연스럽게 자리매김한 그것의 긍정적인 면을 좋아합니다. 아니타씨의 의견에 매우 동의합니다. 제가 (이지은) 2010년에 6개월 정도 베를린에 살면서 언어를 배울 당시에는 슈톨퍼슈타인에 대해 전혀 몰랐습니다. 11년이 지나고 엊그제에서야 그것에 대해 처음 알게 되었고, 슈톨퍼슈타인이라는 이름을 들었을 때, 정말 위트있고 특별한 이름이라고 생각했습니다. 슈톨퍼 (독일어 동사 ‘stolpern’로 ‘발에 채이다, 발에 걸린다’라는 의미)라는 동사 때문이었습니다. 사람들이 지나 다니다 발에 한번 걸리고, 그래서 한 번 쳐다보게 되고, 아픈 역사에 대해 생각하게 되고, 다시 일상으로 돌아가는 것을 슈톨퍼슈타인을 제작한 예술가가 원한 것이 아닐까 추측됩니다. 아니타 맞습니다. 저도 동의해요. 또 다른 질문인 슈톨퍼슈타인이 집 앞에 있는 건물의 거주자들이 그것에 대해 어떻게 생각하는지에 대해 우리는 아주 중요한 사실 하나를 알아야 합니다. 많은 거주민들이 가능한 경우 스스로 슈톨퍼슈타인이 집 앞에 설치되기를 자처한다는 사실이죠. 거주민들이 슈톨퍼슈타인이 집 앞에 설치되기를 원한다고요? 아니타 네, 거주민들이 슈톨퍼슈타인을 제작하는 예술가에게 먼저 연락해요. 본인들의 건물에 억울하게 죽임을 당한 유대인이 살았었음이 발견되면 직접 예술가에게 연락하여 본인들의 집 앞에 슈톨퍼슈타인을 제작 설치해달라고 부탁하는거죠. 그렇게해서 그 유대인을 추모하고 싶어합니다. 그 말은 즉 그 거주민들에게는 그 죽음 자체는 전혀 중요한 문제가 아니라는 얘기군요. 아니타 맞습니다. 슈톨퍼슈타인에는 유대인들의 이름과 어느 수용소로 끌려갔고 언제 죽임을 당했는지에 대한 정보가 쓰여져 있죠. 그들이 그 집에서 죽임을 당한 것이 아니며 그 곳에서 살았었음을 기억하기 위한 것입니다. 그래서 저는 이렇게 이곳에 살았던 유대인들을 기억할 수 있다는 것이 좋다고 생각합니다. 거주민들에게 더이상 죽음이 중요한 문제가 아니며, 오히려 거주민들이 스스로 슈톨퍼슈타인을 설치하고 싶어하며 그 곳에 살았던 유대인을 기억하고 싶어한다는 사실이 흥미롭다는 생각이 듭니다. 아니타 그렇습니다. 당연히 모든 사람의 의견이 같지는 않아요. 슈톨퍼슈타인을 좋아하지 않는 사람들도 분명 존재합니다. 예를 들면 이웃이 슈톨퍼슈타인 설치를 적극적으로 추진하는 것이 싫어서 딴 곳으로 이사가는 사람도 있을 수도 있다고 생각해요. 하지만 2차 세계대전이 일어나고 유대인 학살이 독일 전역에서 일어난 것에 대해서 우리는 분명히 기억해야 한다고 생각합니다. &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 슈톨퍼슈타인의 설치방식이 홀로코스트의 희생자를 제대로 추모하지 못한다는 의견들도 분명히 있습니다. 우리는 그 희생자들을 추모하고 기억해야 하는데 그것이 바닥에 설치되어 있어 그들을 밟게 된다는 것이죠. 하지만 반대로 슈톨퍼슈타인을 보기 위해 고개를 숙여야 하는데, 그 행동이 그들을 추모하는 좋은 방식이라는 의견들도 있어요. 그러니까 슈톨퍼슈타인이 바닥에 설치되어 있어 제대로 된 추모방식이 아니라는 주장이 있다는 말씀이시군요. 아니타 맞아요. 확실하지는 않지만 바이에른 주에는 슈톨퍼슈타인이 없다고 알고 있어요. 바이에른주의 가장 큰 유대인단체가 그것의 설치방식에 동의하지 않기 때문에 설치를 반대했다고 합니다. ARTE에서 제작한 슈톨퍼슈타인에 대한 도움이 될 만한 영상이 있는데 그 링크를 공유해드릴게요. 고맙습니다. 학교에서 홀로코스트 관련 교육은 어떻게 이루어졌습니까? 아니타 일례로 학교에 다닐 때 담임 선생님이 홀로코스트 생존자 분과 만나는 시간을 만드신 적이 있어요. 그 분은 유대인 학살의 마지막 생존자로 나이가 지긋하신 노인이셨습니다. 그 분이 학교에 오시면 학생들은 여러 질문을 할 수 있었죠. 많은 유대인 학살 생존자분들이 직접 독일의 학교를 방문하셔서 학생들이 홀로코스트를 잊지 않도록 하기 위해, 그리고 그 역사를 직면할 수 있게 하셨어요. 그 수업이 몇 살때였나요? 아니타 아마 제 나이가 15살 혹은 16살이었을 것입니다. 혹시 그 수업시간에 아주 구체적인 질문도 있었나요? 예를 들면, 어떻게 학살을 당했는지와 같은 것이요. 아니타 아니예요. 그것보다는 그 학살의 시간이 지나고 독일에 사는 것이 어떤지에 대한 이야기가 더 많았습니다. 생존자 분이 본인의 일생 혹은 가족의 이야기를 많이 해주셨습니다. 이 수업은 역사시간에 진행되었고 담임선생님이 이끌어 주셨습니다. 학교 수업의 일환으로 유대인 학살의 생존자 분과의 만남이 이루어 진다는 것이 흥미롭습니다. 아니타씨는 10살때부터 독일에서 학교에 다니셨잖아요. 독일의 학교에서 나치시대에 대해 어떻게 가르치나요? 아니타 저는 이 부분에 대해 독일 교육 시스템이 잘 되어 있다고 생각해요. 14살 혹은 15살때부터 학교 역사시간에 반드시 2차 세계대전에 대해 긴 시간 자세히 배우게 됩니다. 역사시간뿐만 아니라 독일어 시간에도 2차 세계대전에 대한 책을 읽으며 배워요. 그리고 15살 혹은 16살쯤 되면 담임선생님의 주도 하에 같은 반 학생들과 다른 도시로 단체여행을 떠나는데 대부분 베를린으로 갑니다. 베를린은 수도이고 많은 역사를 가지고 있기 때문입니다. 저희 담임선생님이 정말 잘 이끌어 주셨는데, 저희는 1주일 정도 베를린에 있었고 유대인박물관, 홀로코스트 메모리얼, 그리고 베를린이 동서로 나뉘었던 시절에 있었던 Stasi* 감옥에도 데리고 가셨습니다. 그곳에서 우리 반 모두는 직접 보고 배울 수 있었어요. *Stasi: 동독시절의 경찰 학교 시스템에 그런 중요한 부분이 포함되어 있다는 사실이 정말 흥미롭습니다. 그렇다면 수업시간에 나치시대에 대해 배울때 어떤 방향으로 배우나요? 나치에 대한 강한 비판을 하나요? 아니면 반성을 하며 기억해야 한다고 배우나요? 아니타 정확히 무슨일이 일어났었는지, 어떻게 일어날 수 있었는지에 대해 배우게 됩니다. 시간순으로 일어난 일을 배우게 된다는 말인가요? 아니타 그렇습니다. 그러니까 우리는 나치시대에 대해 기억해야만하고 참회해야만 한다라고 배우지 않아요. 물론 누구에게 그 책임이 있는가는 중요한 문제지만 사실 새로운 세대들은 잘못을 하지 않았습니다. 그저 앞으로 다시는 그런 일이 일어나지 않도록 책임을 져야 한다고 배웁니다. 새로운 세대들은 잘못은 없지만 다시는 그런 일이 일어나지 않게 알아야만 한다는 것이군요. 아니타 그렇습니다. 2차 세계대전이 어떤 정치적인 이유로 일어났는지, 어떤 기관이나 관청이 주도했는지, 어떻게 단 한 사람이 모든 것을 일으킬수 있을 만한 큰 권력을 가지게 되었는지에 대해 과정별로 배워요. 어떻게 히틀러 정당이 힘을 가지게 되었는지요. 그리고 어떻게 히틀러의 이념이 사람들에게 각인되게 되었는지 프로파간다에 대해서도 배우게 되죠. 수업시간에 관련된 영상들을 보기도 해요. 사실 2차 세계대전 때 일어났던 일들은 정말 많아서 지금도 저는 배우는게 아직 많습니다. 그럼 2차 세계대전과 유대인 학살에 대해 누구의 책임이라고 배우나요? 아니면 책임에 대해 이야기를 안하나요? 아니타 아니요, 책임에 대해 이야기 하고 정치적인 토론도 합니다. 사실 누구의 책임이겠습니까? 그 사실에 대해 알고 있었고 그 일이 일어나도록 방치한 모두의 잘못이죠. ARTE에서 제작한 슈톨퍼슈타인에 대한 영상︎︎︎ https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/AnitaR_eng Sat, 26 Feb 2022 13:42:11 +0000 Living and Knowing https://sarmgwaarm.cargo.site/AnitaR_eng Deutsche&nbsp; | &nbsp;한국어Interview with Anita Rind (ZK/U Residency Coordinator) Zoom interview on 22. Dec. 2021 Interviewed by Jeeyoung Lee, Joohee Oh German Interpreted, translated and transcripted by Jieun Lee English translated byBritcent Ltd *This interview took place with the help of a Korean-German interpreter. The interviewer is not identified as the interpreter’s own views are transmitted during the questioning. The recordings in German were then transcribed and translated into Korean before being translated again into English. Hi, would you please tell me what you studied and what you are interested in? Anita I am 31 years old and I’ve lived in Berlin for two years. Before that I was in Gothenburg, Sweden, completing a post-graduate program in Global Studies. Global Studies is a new discipline within the social sciences and focuses on globalisation and its many implications, including the impact on society, employment, the natural environment, and even gender issues. Prior to my post-graduate studies in Gothenburg, I did a master’s program in Chinese Studies in Heidelberg, Germany.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;My mother being Taiwanese, I am able to speak Mandarin. And with my father a German, I’ve lived in Germany since age 10. As such, I’m particularly interested in political and social issues in Taiwan and China, and Southeast Asia in general. I am also interested in Korea. Having done much research on gender equality over the course of my studies, I have a particular interest in gender discrimination in Taiwan. Other areas of great interest include political change and social themes such as cultural exchanges involving Europe and between nations. Now you are working at ZK/U, right? Anita Yes, now I am working here at ZK/U as a Residency Coordinator. I help residency management, such as studio booking, and events like Monday Dinner. Have you studied in the United States? Anita No, I haven’t studied in the US, but I went American School in Guangzhou, China until 10. I learnt English there. So, you are fluent in three languages? Anita Yes. I attended the gymnasium in Germany after arriving at age 10. Living in Germany since then, I completed the Abitur and went onto a master’s program. I have a question on a type of monument, the Stolperstein︎︎︎. These are installed on pavements and many people pass by them unwittingly. Nonetheless, many also know about their existence and that they are inscribed with the names of those who had lived there once but perished elsewhere. As such, the residents of the buildings where Stolpersteine are located are essentially encountering death on a daily basis. We are therefore curious about the thoughts of the residents in those buildings and what they feel. What are your thoughts, Anita, on the Stolperstein and what do you think goes through the minds of the residents? Anita Let me first state my thoughts on the Stolperstein itself. I am aware that opinions are divided, even amongst Jewish descendants, and that there are many who are supportive of it. I am also in favour of the Stolperstein in its current form. I particularly like the fact that it allows one to commemorate history amidst normal daily life. For example, if one happens to chance across a Stolperstein while, say, waiting for a friend, it allows for a moment of reflection on the thought that from here another Jew was taken away. In effect, one is reflecting back on the thought, albeit briefly, that yet another Jewish person was deprived of their beautiful life during Nazi rule, over the course of one’s normal daily routine. While I somewhat agree with the view that their placement on the floor may be disrespectful to Jews, I am still in favour of the positive aspect of its natural integration into everyday life. I am very much in agreement with your views, Anita. I (Interpreter: Lee Jieun) was completely unaware of its existence even while spending six months in Berlin in 2010 to learn German. It wasn’t until 11 years later, just yesterday, that I learned about its existence, and I think that “Stolperstein” is a very witty and special name for it, given the German verb stolpern which in English means ‘to trip’, or ‘stumble’. I speculate it is the artist’s intention to have passersby trip over the monument, to notice it, and to monetarily reflect on a painful part of history before resuming their everyday life. Anita Yes, I agree on that. Regarding your other question about how the residents of the buildings in front of the Stolperstein might feel, one important fact needs to be highlighted here. And that is that many residents, in fact, volunteer to have the Stolperstein installed in front of their buildings if possible. The residents want to have the Stolperstein right in front of their buildings? Anita Yes, the residents initiate contact with the artist who’s responsible for the Stolperstein. Once they discover that in their building there once lived a Jewish person who met an unjust death, the residents reach out to the artist and ask for the Stolperstein to be installed in front of their building, in order to commemorate that person. In other words, to those residents, the matter of death itself is not a significant issue. Anita Correct. On the Stolpersteine are inscribed the names of the Jews, which concentration camp they were taken to, and when they died. They did not die at that building and so instead the intention is to commemorate the fact that they lived in that building. That’s why I think the Stolperstein is a good way to remember those who lived there. I find it fascinating that to the residents death itself is not the main issue and that the residents themselves want to have the Stolperstein installed at their premises and that they would like to remember the Jewish people who lived there, in that way. Anita Indeed. But of course not everyone is of the same opinion. There is no doubt there are those who don’t like the Stolperstein. For example, there may be those who are not in favour of neighbours actively looking for a Stolperstein to be installed and who choose instead to move away. Nevertheless, I believe that the facts of the Second World War and the mass genocide of the Jewish people across all of Germany are certainly things that must be remembered. Of course, there are views that the way in which the Stolperstein is installed is not the best way to commemorate the victims of the Holocaust. While we need to reflect and commemorate those victims, due to their placement on the pavement, we end up stepping on the installations. On the other hand, there are those who believe that the act of having to tilt one’s head down to see them is in fact a good way to have this remembrance. You are saying that there are some who think that the installation on the pavement is not the best way to commemorate. Anita Yes. While I’m not completely certain, to my knowledge there are no Stolpersteine in the state of Bavaria. Apparently, the biggest Jewish organisation in Bavaria is opposed to the placement method of the Stolperstein. There is an informative video on Stolperstein produced by ARTE. I will share the link with you. Thank you so much. How was education on the Holocaust at school? Anita As an example, the homeroom teacher organised some time together with a Holocaust survivor. As one of the last survivors of the Jewish genocide he was very advanced in age. With him visiting the school, the students were provided the chance to ask him many questions. Many such survivors of the Holocaust personally visited schools across Germany to allow students to directly encounter history and to keep memories of the Holocaust alive. Your age at that time? Anita I think I was probably 15 or 16 at the time. Were there by chance any detailed questions, such as on how the massacres were carried out? Anita No. The focus was rather more on what it was like to live in Germany after having lived through the Holocaust. The survivors spoke more about their lives and families. The encounters took place during history classes and were led by the homeroom teachers. I am intrigued that meetings were arranged with Holocaust survivors as part of the school curriculum. You mentioned that you had been schooled in Germany since age 10. What is the teaching in German schools like on the subject of Nazi rule? Anita I believe the German educational system is particularly good in this area. From age 14 or 15, one must spend a long time in classes learning all about the Second World War. Not only in history classes, but also in German literature classes one has to work through books on the Second World War. And again, when one is 14 or 15, under the tutelage of the homeroom teacher there is an offsite visit to another German city together with classmates, most likely to Berlin. Berlin is not only the capital city, it also contains much history. Brilliantly led by our homeroom teacher, we spent about a week in Berlin, during which we visited the Jewish Museum, the Holocaust Memorial, and the Stasi prison, which existed when Germany was divided into East and West. The trip was a chance for the entire class to experience the sites first-hand and learn from them. It is really interesting that such components are part of the school system. Then, when learning about the Nazis at school, which is the perspective taken? Are the Nazis strongly criticised, or is it more about reflecting and remembering? Anita We learn specifically about what happened and how it could have been allowed to happen. You mean about events in chronological order? Anita Yes. In other words, it’s not just about reflecting and repenting. While it is important to allocate responsibility, the subsequent generations did nothing wrong. Instead they are taught to be responsible so that such events do not recur. You mean while the new generations are innocent, they need to be aware to prevent recurrence of such events in the future. Anita Yes. We learn about the political factors that led to the Second World War, and the sequence of events that led certain organisations and agencies to take control, and how one individual was allowed the power to inflict so much damage, how Hitler’s party came to power. We also learn about propaganda, how Hitler’s ideology came to make an impression on the people. In fact, so much happened around the Second World War that there remains much still for me to learn. Then what is the teaching regarding who is responsible for the Holocaust? Or is the subject of responsibility avoided? Anita No, we talk about responsibility and engage in political discussions. In fact, whose fault could it be? All those who were aware of the facts and yet allowed it to happen are responsible. Youtube link to the video on Stolperstein produced by ARTE︎︎︎