Zoom interview on 22. Dec. 2021


Interviewed by
Jeeyoung Lee, Joohee Oh


German Interpreted, translated and transcripted by
Jieun Lee


English translated by
Britcent Ltd

*This interview took place with the help of a Korean-German interpreter. The interviewer is not identified as the interpreter’s own views are transmitted during the questioning. The recordings in German were then transcribed and translated into Korean before being translated again into English.

Hi, would you please tell me what you studied and what you are interested in?

I am 31 years old and I’ve lived in Berlin for two years. Before that I was in Gothenburg, Sweden, completing a post-graduate program in Global Studies. Global Studies is a new discipline within the social sciences and focuses on globalisation and its many implications, including the impact on society, employment, the natural environment, and even gender issues. Prior to my post-graduate studies in Gothenburg, I did a master’s program in Chinese Studies in Heidelberg, Germany.
           My mother being Taiwanese, I am able to speak Mandarin. And with my father a German, I’ve lived in Germany since age 10. As such, I’m particularly interested in political and social issues in Taiwan and China, and Southeast Asia in general. I am also interested in Korea. Having done much research on gender equality over the course of my studies, I have a particular interest in gender discrimination in Taiwan. Other areas of great interest include political change and social themes such as cultural exchanges involving Europe and between nations.

Now you are working at ZK/U, right?

Yes, now I am working here at ZK/U as a Residency Coordinator. I help residency management, such as studio booking, and events like Monday Dinner.

Have you studied in the United States?

No, I haven’t studied in the US, but I went American School in Guangzhou, China until 10. I learnt English there.

So, you are fluent in three languages?

Yes. I attended the gymnasium in Germany after arriving at age 10. Living in Germany since then, I completed the Abitur and went onto a master’s program.

I have a question on a type of monument, the Stolperstein︎︎︎. These are installed on pavements and many people pass by them unwittingly. Nonetheless, many also know about their existence and that they are inscribed with the names of those who had lived there once but perished elsewhere. As such, the residents of the buildings where Stolpersteine are located are essentially encountering death on a daily basis. We are therefore curious about the thoughts of the residents in those buildings and what they feel. What are your thoughts, Anita, on the Stolperstein and what do you think goes through the minds of the residents?

Let me first state my thoughts on the Stolperstein itself. I am aware that opinions are divided, even amongst Jewish descendants, and that there are many who are supportive of it. I am also in favour of the Stolperstein in its current form. I particularly like the fact that it allows one to commemorate history amidst normal daily life. For example, if one happens to chance across a Stolperstein while, say, waiting for a friend, it allows for a moment of reflection on the thought that from here another Jew was taken away. In effect, one is reflecting back on the thought, albeit briefly, that yet another Jewish person was deprived of their beautiful life during Nazi rule, over the course of one’s normal daily routine. While I somewhat agree with the view that their placement on the floor may be disrespectful to Jews, I am still in favour of the positive aspect of its natural integration into everyday life.

I am very much in agreement with your views, Anita. I (Interpreter: Lee Jieun) was completely unaware of its existence even while spending six months in Berlin in 2010 to learn German. It wasn’t until 11 years later, just yesterday, that I learned about its existence, and I think that “Stolperstein” is a very witty and special name for it, given the German verb stolpern which in English means ‘to trip’, or ‘stumble’. I speculate it is the artist’s intention to have passersby trip over the monument, to notice it, and to monetarily reflect on a painful part of history before resuming their everyday life.

Yes, I agree on that. Regarding your other question about how the residents of the buildings in front of the Stolperstein might feel, one important fact needs to be highlighted here. And that is that many residents, in fact, volunteer to have the Stolperstein installed in front of their buildings if possible.

The residents want to have the Stolperstein right in front of their buildings?

Yes, the residents initiate contact with the artist who’s responsible for the Stolperstein. Once they discover that in their building there once lived a Jewish person who met an unjust death, the residents reach out to the artist and ask for the Stolperstein to be installed in front of their building, in order to commemorate that person.

In other words, to those residents, the matter of death itself is not a significant issue.

Correct. On the Stolpersteine are inscribed the names of the Jews, which concentration camp they were taken to, and when they died. They did not die at that building and so instead the intention is to commemorate the fact that they lived in that building. That’s why I think the Stolperstein is a good way to remember those who lived there.

I find it fascinating that to the residents death itself is not the main issue and that the residents themselves want to have the Stolperstein installed at their premises and that they would like to remember the Jewish people who lived there, in that way.

Indeed. But of course not everyone is of the same opinion. There is no doubt there are those who don’t like the Stolperstein. For example, there may be those who are not in favour of neighbours actively looking for a Stolperstein to be installed and who choose instead to move away. Nevertheless, I believe that the facts of the Second World War and the mass genocide of the Jewish people across all of Germany are certainly things that must be remembered. Of course, there are views that the way in which the Stolperstein is installed is not the best way to commemorate the victims of the Holocaust. While we need to reflect and commemorate those victims, due to their placement on the pavement, we end up stepping on the installations. On the other hand, there are those who believe that the act of having to tilt one’s head down to see them is in fact a good way to have this remembrance.

You are saying that there are some who think that the installation on the pavement is not the best way to commemorate.

Yes. While I’m not completely certain, to my knowledge there are no Stolpersteine in the state of Bavaria. Apparently, the biggest Jewish organisation in Bavaria is opposed to the placement method of the Stolperstein. There is an informative video on Stolperstein produced by ARTE. I will share the link with you.

Thank you so much. How was education on the Holocaust at school?

As an example, the homeroom teacher organised some time together with a Holocaust survivor. As one of the last survivors of the Jewish genocide he was very advanced in age. With him visiting the school, the students were provided the chance to ask him many questions. Many such survivors of the Holocaust personally visited schools across Germany to allow students to directly encounter history and to keep memories of the Holocaust alive.

Your age at that time?

I think I was probably 15 or 16 at the time.

Were there by chance any detailed questions, such as on how the massacres were carried out?

No. The focus was rather more on what it was like to live in Germany after having lived through the Holocaust. The survivors spoke more about their lives and families. The encounters took place during history classes and were led by the homeroom teachers.

I am intrigued that meetings were arranged with Holocaust survivors as part of the school curriculum. You mentioned that you had been schooled in Germany since age 10. What is the teaching in German schools like on the subject of Nazi rule?

I believe the German educational system is particularly good in this area. From age 14 or 15, one must spend a long time in classes learning all about the Second World War. Not only in history classes, but also in German literature classes one has to work through books on the Second World War. And again, when one is 14 or 15, under the tutelage of the homeroom teacher there is an offsite visit to another German city together with classmates, most likely to Berlin. Berlin is not only the capital city, it also contains much history. Brilliantly led by our homeroom teacher, we spent about a week in Berlin, during which we visited the Jewish Museum, the Holocaust Memorial, and the Stasi prison, which existed when Germany was divided into East and West. The trip was a chance for the entire class to experience the sites first-hand and learn from them.

It is really interesting that such components are part of the school system. Then, when learning about the Nazis at school, which is the perspective taken? Are the Nazis strongly criticised, or is it more about reflecting and remembering?

We learn specifically about what happened and how it could have been allowed to happen.

You mean about events in chronological order?

Yes. In other words, it’s not just about reflecting and repenting. While it is important to allocate responsibility, the subsequent generations did nothing wrong. Instead they are taught to be responsible so that such events do not recur.

You mean while the new generations are innocent, they need to be aware to prevent recurrence of such events in the future.

Yes. We learn about the political factors that led to the Second World War, and the sequence of events that led certain organisations and agencies to take control, and how one individual was allowed the power to inflict so much damage, how Hitler’s party came to power. We also learn about propaganda, how Hitler’s ideology came to make an impression on the people. In fact, so much happened around the Second World War that there remains much still for me to learn.

Then what is the teaching regarding who is responsible for the Holocaust? Or is the subject of responsibility avoided?

No, we talk about responsibility and engage in political discussions. In fact, whose fault could it be? All those who were aware of the facts and yet allowed it to happen are responsible.

Youtube link to the video on Stolperstein produced by ARTE︎︎︎